joelj It's strange, I saw a video awhile ago with wild amounts of flickering on the deck, but yesterday I looked at my CCFL monitor with my non-flagship phone, and it is able to see the moving PWM lines on my monitor between 0-98, and not visible 99-100. I looked at the SD, even at the lowest setting my phone can't see flickering. So that likely means the rate is higher or not present.

I do however think I can see FRC dithering in action.

I have the 512 matte screen on mine, but uhh, I haven't actually gotten around trying to play a game on it yet heh but futzing about it both in the steam mode and the desktop mode didn't seem bad. I suppose I will see how it is when I actually try playing something.

It is true though that the backlight is very very blue and it's not that easy to shoehorn a colour profile in. It's just a cheap tablet screen.

    a month later

    I finally got around to playing on the deck. I do wish the screen was a little better (only 68% sRGB coverage but you don't really notice it and basically what you get on a cheap laptop), but the matte screen that comes with the 512 is usable for me. I put 13 hours into a standard platformer on the deck's screen. Maybe it would be different with a FPS type game. I don't know if the glossy screen used by the 64/256 models is the same panel or a different one. It's also possible that there's been a panel change because some people have been complaining about bubbles and having to cure the screen with 15 minutes of UV before using it safely (what?) which was not at all the case with earlier shipments.

    It is possible to configure the night mode overlay in such a way that it adjusts the colours so it's not so blue, and closer to 6500 kelvin. Night mode does work in games also so it's one setting that you can toggle on and off.

    I'll get a dock eventually, will be interesting to see how it is on my monitor.

      5 days later
      6 days later

      thorpee I think so, but so many bug fixes and active development are occurring at the current time, that I don't think one really should.

      Re: GTX970, you can, but the GPU in it is an AMD so the driver will be completely different. I wouldn't bother tbh because nothing in the display chain will be the same, the driver and the display both. They're using Wayland for the overall system, the KDE desktop mode is still using X.org.

      I hope they release a good dock for it eventually, I want to see how the output to my display is and tbh, it'll be easier on my eyes/neck if I can sit more comfortably.

        2 months later

        I have had the dock for awhile now. I'm outputting it to the DVI port on my monitor using the HDMI output on the dock.. which is too bad because the displayport output is busted at the current time and I have a bunch of displayport adapters.. there'll be an update in the future for that. While not perfect, it is usable in desktop mode. Desktop mode is still using X11 (this is not permanent, they'll probably change it to Wayland in the future) but I find launching the non-3D game I am playing in desktop mode feels just fine, many many hours no problem. I have tried it in Wayland mode on my monitor as well, and while playable, I find it is subtly not as comfortable as when it is in X11 mode. Curiously, I think there is a certain amount of display compatibility at play as well.. e.g. on the deck's screen (my panel is made by BOE), wayland is fine and of course, the dock probably does its own processing for the output to the monitor.

        If my regular older PC was to break I would probably just switch over to using the deck as a PC in the short term.

        That said, I do not say for anyone to go get one unless they want to, because this is a moving target. Updates are being published for the OS and firmware (both the deck and the dock), so anything can change. Drivers, kernel, etc. It's not a static system.

          Sunspark

          Thanks for your update.

          Let us know if they release an update that changes it. If nothing changes after a new hardware revision comes out it might be worth picking up a secondhand one.

            a month later

            Hi Guys,

            Recently did received my Steam Deck 64 GB, and I can tell that it gives me eye strain and neck pain. What is also interesting, same happening even with external display. Noticed one thing, that it easier for my eyes if to use it in Night Mode.

            Trying to figure out, what is exactly cause of this eye strain, I know that Steam Deck has PWM and it's frequency 1080 HZ, but I do not think that I'm sensitive to PWM, or at least probably I'm sensitive to some frequencies.

            List of usable devices, which do not cause issues for me:

            Iphone X (240 hz PWM)

            Ipad mini 5 (about 4000 HZ PWM)

            Sony Led TV (720 HZ PWM)

            MacBook Pro 14 Retina 2015 (No PWM)

            Devices which give me eye stain and headaches:

            MacBook Pro 16 2019

            MacBooks on M1 with MiniLed

            Macbook Air M1

            All Oled Iphones

            LG OLED 55B8PLA

            So I'm interesting if some one have same issues with Steam Deck? And also thinking is there sense to try/test 512 GB model, steam support telling that all models have the same screen panel, only difference in 512 model is anti glare screen.

            If you're having an issue with an external display, then it's probably the driver. It's an AMD RDNA2 APU. You could try making a Windows-to-Go boot drive and booting from that instead and installing the Windows driver and see if it's any different.

              Sunspark Thanks for suggestion, I had thoughts regarding that, but unfortunately I did already send steam deck back and requested refund. But still thinking to try 512GB, it not so bright and probably there I can try to see how it will be on windows.

              Does anybody solve eye strain issue by installing Windows on Steam Deck?

                  artdyl I have no eye strain with my steam deck. I have the 256GB with glossy display.

                      hayder1983 Just curious, what devices is usable for you and what is not, I mean laptops, phones, TV's etc?

                          artdyl good devices:
                          mate 10 pro, my NON-LED Samsung syncmaster s2494hm, Amazon fire Tablett 2016, iPhone x, steam deck.

                          My work laptop screen for some reason is usable too but gives me very mild pain. Still usable. HP Laptop from the year.

                          But there are a lot of monitor screens i cant use. Mostly nausea but some give me hammering pain in my eye. Eizo, benq, dell, iiyama, AOC, MSI, LG, doesnt matter, nothing new works for me, tested 20+ new screens.

                          My TV is moderate pain. I can only watch TV for 3 hours before i go to bed, otherwise my eyes feel super dry. Normal LG ips TV with 120hz pwm.

                            4 months later

                            Just a note.

                            Game mode uses a Wayland compositor named gamescope which uses the digital rendering manager directly so it can access hardware KMS planes, etc. It doesn't sit inside another compositor.

                            Desktop mode is x.org (X11) using KDE's compositor kwin.

                            My observation is that game mode works pretty good both on the internal screen as well as external screen.

                            Desktop mode, not so much. Sucks. I find it much more straining on the external screen compared to Windows (and especially my other PC). It was better in version 3.3 of steamos, but got worse in 3.4. The converse is true for game mode and I actually found some games better in desktop mode in 3.3, but probably not now.

                            I have also tried the Windows drivers. They are so-so, but I don't care for them. Will probably be better later though.

                            3.5 of the OS will have a new kernel, more mesa updates, etc. Will be interesting to see how it changes over time. I don't think Windows support will be touched much this year. Maybe next year.

                              3 months later

                              Sunspark

                              You seem to be happy with the Deck's picture even on the built-in screen, right? Do you think you could do me a favor? Do you have a phone (or a camera) that can record slow motion videos? Could you make a recording of the steam UI as shiwn on the Decks 7" screen in slow motion and see if there are slightly darker lines going from left to right? You should have your Deck screen brightness set to max to have better chances of spotting it. Many thanks!

                              @ludwig I saw in another thread that you too have the Deck. Could I please kindly ask you to do the same? Thanks!

                                You're asking to see PWM lines.. but at max brightness that's when they're least visible.. One guy did measure it with a radex lupin, and at max it was at 8.5% or so.

                                Another person made this comment: "I tested a pwm flicker meter on screens (radex lupin) and used it on the screen of the Steam deck, I can inform you about the quality of the screen in terms of its level of protection or how tiring it is for the eyes. To summarize, to measure the flicker the device uses a measure from 1 to 100%, between 1-5% is ideal and means that the level of flicker is so low that it does not tire the eyes and protects them during long gaming sessions. Between 5 and 15% is still a pretty decent flicker, but more than 15 and especially from 30 a screen starts to be annoying for the eyes. I tested all brightnesses and it gave me 5% flicker in all but 30% brightness which already goes up to almost 10% flicker and below 10% brightness the flicker goes up to almost 30%. In short, if you use the Steam deck above 30% brightness and especially above 10%, it will tire your eyes very little and will not give you a headache. It occurs to me that maybe my screen is like this because it is the 512 GB if yours is the 64 GB or that yours is defective."

                                To be honest, I haven't used it much handheld.. it's almost always docked to my monitor (easier to see a larger screen, and it's lighter to hold a controller than an entire system). I did put in about 30 hours handheld tho.

                                  Sunspark

                                  Hi, I am not so sure it is PWM. My phone is able to spot it the most at max brightness and the flicker is tied to refresh rate you set (I am sure of this), which PWM as a backlight flicker has no reason to be.

                                  Do you think you could check for me if you spot those lines? If your camera cannot show the flicker at 60 hz, please try to change to 40 hz and theoretically you should be able to see that then by just pointing your phone at the screen (please be advised the refresh rate setting only applies to games, steam user interface is always 60hz, 60 fps). If there's any chance to upload the video of it somewhere even better, but I'll be grateful for a verbal confirmation too.

                                  The reason I am kindly asking you to do this is that I have a suspicion that there's either different screens for different Deck models (mine is 64GB) or different Deck batches received different screens. Steam support denies that but I have my doubts (for many people if two screens are both 800p 60hz then it is "the same" screen)…

                                  Thank you very much!

                                  And just as a note for the audience here: Deck's internal screen is giving me one of the worst headaches I ever had from a display… and I suspect it is not any "hidden" dithering flicker this time, but the plain PWM-like flicker you can spot with a simple phone camera. 60hz is a really low frequency unfortunately… 🙁

                                    I won't do the 40 because I already know that it will do the black flashing scan-out thing which doesn't happen at 60. A lot of people have complained about this and the panel wasn't really designed to operate at 40. There is no point for me to use anything but 60. Read this thread, a guy here is complaining about it: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1675200/discussions/0/3838802451903250491/

                                    There are multiple screens already, but not necessarily from different manufacturers.. but like monitors they've already incremented the part number revision 3 times. No information if a new manufacturer has been brought into the mix or not yet. It's possible, but I haven't seen evidence yet.

                                    If you're getting a bad headache from it, there might be something wrong with the unit.. I've seen a few complaints. Neither Ludwig or I got a headache from it but I (probably him as well) haven't been using 40. It would be better if you could see someone else's unit in person instead of videos. Honestly, the SD's screen is not actually bad. I won't say it is perfect because it's not, but it's not bad.

                                      Sunspark

                                      Hi, thanks a lot for your reply. I am part of that thread so I know very well what's written there. I increased my refresh rate to 70 thanks to a post there (and it seems to improve it a bit).

                                      But the point here is the flicker (the black line) is not there at 40 only, it's there at ANY refresh rate, only at 60 it is in sync with your camera so it makes you believe it's not there. You have to record it as a slow motion video to see it.

                                      Could you please try it on your unit? If you have a phone capable of recording slow motion it should take a few seconds. Thanks a lot, this will really help!

                                        4 months later

                                        https://old.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/17yf90o/analysis_of_the_pwm_of_the_steam_deck_lcd_screen/

                                        No way this was done by someone not from this forum, lol. Great work though!

                                        For me, video output to external monitor has improved slightly with the most recent batch of firmware and OS updates. I still prefer my regular machine though. Among other things, Valve's desktop is somewhat on the minimal side, their new colour management features (slider for colour temperature and slider for colour saturation) are only for gaming mode.. desktop mode has nothing.

                                          dev