Purchased an IdeaPad5 online with 11th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-1165G7 Processor and : Integrated Intel® Iris® Xe Graphics. It is terrible! Within only a few minutes of exposure I get eye strain, headaches and nausea and felt a migraine coming along. I almost feel like I'm going to vomit! I tried ditherig which doesn't seem to impact the display; I see no banding. My family member also felt nauseous -- but less so and it took hours for that to set in. We may need to return it. Luckily my daily drivers are still holding up, but I know I'm just an OS Update or broken hardware or new job away from a world of misery. It's so depressing and I'm so sick of this condition (which seems to run in families). Wonder if anyone has ideas? It seems the Intel Iris graphics is much worse than Intel UHD. I really wish these companies would do something. Intel has dismissed our concerns . I'd gladly pay for research given our livelihoods are at stake. I found yet another thread with others suffering, this time from Window/Lenovo .

ryans ryans I really wish these companies would do something. Intel has dismissed our concerns Ah. I didn't see this before Without measurable differences between the drivers, there is no objective way to resolve the issue. Sad part is, coming from the context of an engineering team, that's not an unreasonable position to take. Unless you can empirically detect what's "wrong" with a certain device, fixing it is a problem of itself. https://ledstrain.org/d/1247-a-good-site-on-temporal-dithering/5 (forget how to embed posts, but read linked post

ryans I wonder if some of those users that replied are from here. I guess the more we return products complaining of faulty display causing eye strain the better. Can you still return the Lenovo? I'm stuck on my daily workable systems too. Sometimes I buy a second hand laptop or monitor off Facebook marketplace to test. If it ain't good I just sell it back on FB. Less stressfull when its a small amount of money.

ryans Same, better or worse if you look with one eye?

[unknown] I agree strongly that second hand older hardware is the way to go (although sometimes I don’t take my own advice). The chance of success in our condition is far too low to gamble on new equipment that is both expensive and might end up in a landfill of returned.

I have not had lasting success with any new hardware or software in some time. I think “New” has become a dead end for now. The “bad” aspect of the display output is very consistently enforced now. I used to say when I found a good device that they forget to install the eyestrain. I was right. They don’t forget anymore.

ryans The primary listed LCD panel part listed for this laptop is the Infovision R156NWF7 R2, but there are 2 substitutions possible as well. Infovision panels sometimes, but not always, use PWM on recent year Lenovos. I could not find PWM information on this particular panel. The closest panel I could find, the IVO M156NWF7 R3, was reported to not use PWM by the Russian website Andiriney .

Thanks all. No obvious PWM from a smartphone camera. I used it for ~ 10 minutes with a few breaks and feel a little dizzy and spaced out. I noticed two very interesting things: When covering one eye, the dizziness seems better when using the laptop internal display. Not enough to make this thing my fulltime device, though. When covering one eye at a time, on this IdeaPad laptop only, one eye seems noticeably brighter than the other (left eye is brigher than the right eye). This is true even if I change my position. Could the brain be getting confused by this? When I tried this on known good devices, I didn't notice this. Based on 2, I got out my polarized sunglasses. On IdeaPad laptop, the polarization (a "blue" color) was very noticeable. On my known good laptop (HP EliteBook G6) and known decent smartphone (LG G7), there is no polarization noticeable. I do see it on my known good BenQ monitor, so maybe it's a red herring here. Does anyone know what polarization actually does? Can it impact binocular vision?

ryans Start training with covering one eye. I think it’s like 10+ users on this forum that get milder to almost non problems with one eye.

mike I'll give it a try. I didn't realize it was 10+ people, that's amazing. When I do my accommodative rock with lenses as part of vision therapy, we start with one eye first, and then move to two eyes later. Maybe it's a similar concept. What's the best technique you've found? Switching eyes every couple hours? How long did you do this training? Did you get eyestrain/dizziness/almost anxiety too?

ryans What's the best technique you've found? Switching eyes every couple hours? How long did you do this training? For the most I covered my right non-dominant lazy eye. Start cover-training with one eye, and if that doesn’t improve, try your other eye. Three weeks, about an hour a day with a bad screen was a game changer for me. What works for you I don’t know, we are all different. ryans Did you get eyestrain/dizziness/almost anxiety too? Yes, very bad. Tension headache, red burning eyes, dizziness and so on. Back in 2015 I could work an hour a day, it was depressing. But thanks to @martin i started to train with one eye and after a few weeks I got good progress with my binocular vision.

So depressed...Lenovo IdeaPad5 gives eyestrain and nausea.

ryans

JTL

Unfortunately all I was able to see is "Generic PnP Monitor". It's using a Microsoft driver from 2006 and has the driver version 10.0.19041.1151.

WinVer is Windows 10 20H2, OS Build 19042.1288.

The refresh rate is 60Hz, RGB Color Format, with Color Space of Standard dynamic range (SDR).

It uses Intel(R) Iris(R) Xe Graphics driver from 5/20/2021 using the driver version 27.20.100.9565.

I tried ditherig20 but it has no noticeable affect. Unfortunately this device seems to be impacting me neurologically, even with one-eye closed. It does seem more tolerable when disabling the Intel driver and falling back to Microsoft Basic Display Driver.

degen

ryans

Try going to the Details tab and then using the drop down menu to select Hardware ID

ryans

degen

Ah, good call out, it is MONITOR\IVO061F.

xelaos

ryans

In terms of your different perception of brightness of your eyes, it could be the case that you have a fixation issue so that you doesn't look with the part of the retina which should be used so different light receptors are used.

I think as Mike outlined before, that many of us have in general trouble with our binocular vision which is in different forms triggered by different displays. If you have trouble focusing you probably more inclined to use parts of your peripheral vision to compensate.

However bright and sharp displays with strong contrast ratios make it more difficult to do so, since they stimulate fusion which is more taxing on your eye muscles if you have trouble with your binocular vision. So it is not really the displays fault here but an unfortunate consequence of better displays, antialiasing or other software improvements.

If you have some success with one eye in the beginning, it is not unlikely that you are nearly symptom free in 3-6 months during the time when you have one eye covered. As Mike said for most people it is better to cover their non dominant eye, but just try it for yourself. You should feel a preference after some testing. I would also suggest to only cover your eye in situations in which is necessary to do so to keep you binocular vision alive, but most people do that anyways.

However, in most cases covering one eye should not help you with your binocular vision, but it can.

ryans

Interestingly, my "good" laptop (HP EliteBook with MONITOR\CMN14FF Panel) is running the same Windows 10 version! So Windows 10 isn't the issue for me.

I returned the Lenovo IdeaPad 5. It makes me confused, "brain feels like its whooshing" & out of space while looking at and feel slow cognitively as well as sensitive to noise, but actually doesn't cause much eyestrain. These effects lasts for at least an hour after viewing for 1 minute, even if I cover one eye. So I am not sure it's really binocular vision for me 🙁 @martin.

I do have a family history of epilepsy that has (fortunately) not yet manifested ~ except possibly on some of these awful laptops.

Interestingly, I used the laptop for 3+ hours while lying down. After about 20 minutes, I was sort of able to concentrate while using it, but still felt out of sorts. This gives me some hope that "getting used to it" may be possible.

When I first got the LG G7, I did notice unusual muscle twitching, but I don't recall any cognitive issues, so I just stuck through it. A few months later I didn't get any twitching from using it. I should have kept a journal.

I'm trying to figure out what the heck could possibly be different between the Lenovo IdeaPad 6 and HP EliteBook G6 running the same exact OS build? Same screen resolution.

My only thoughts are:

Something weird with the panel --> my money is on this. Good is MONITOR\CMN14FF, bad is MONITOR\IVO061F.
Dithering due to the different graphics; 'good' for me is Intel UHD Graphics 620 and bad was the Intel Iris graphics. I tried ditherig but it had no impact; I couldn't see banding.
I disabled Bluetooth, but that had no impact.
Disabling the Intel Iris Graphics to use the MS Windows one didn't seem to help; but I may have been too stressed for that to matter.

ryans

Got bad news to report all. My "good" HP EliteBook has become bad. I typically use it with external monitors; however looking at the internal display today gave me the same symptoms of the bad IdeaPad (dizziness, nausea). I used to use this same EliteBook for hours on the internal display with no issues. It remains usable with external monitors.

So something changed, whether it's some Windows 10 upgrade or something with me eyes/brain.

For unrelated issues, I got a brain MRI with and without contrast done. It was normal.

My old Thinkpad on Windows 1909 remains usable -- and I will NOT update it.

degen

ryans In your "View update history". See if any Feature Update was performed recently. Also, please check Driver Updates in the same place and see if a display driver update was performed.

ryans

degen The Intel Graphics 620 hasn't changed since 4/20/2021.

There are some Windows updates, but since I didn't look at the laptop much, it's hard to pin down when it occurred. Luckily, I can still use it with external monitors (which I'd prefer even if I didn't have this horrible issue!)

arturpanteleev

Hi everyone! Do you have some news about this problem? I bought Acer Swift 3

with Intel Core i7 1165G7 Intel Iris Xe Graphics

And I feel terrible 🙁 I connected it to my old CCFL monitor(which never give me an eyesrain) and it was terrible. My eyes were hurt, my blood pressure became 170/90 and a feel really bad. Interesting, that my previous laptop with Intel(R) UHD Graphics 620 works perfect with this display. Dou you have some decisions or ideas with that?

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ryans

arturpanteleev Sorry you are suffering too. I wasn't able to get the device usable, I had to return it.

Clokwork

I should have read this thread before I asked my question about Xe graphics. @ryans brought this up, but I wonder what the native bit specs are for the displays. If they are 6 bit panels, I believe the Xe starts a 8 bit. There may be FRC going on (temporal dithering). Hooking them up to external displays with the same issues is a head scratcher for me.

Regarding PWM, it will be awesome if an affordable meter becomes available that can take 1000's to tens's of thousands of readings a second.

arturpanteleev

Clokwork did you mean that intel graphics make me terrible if I connect it to 6 or 6+2 bit display? sounds interesting,I connected it to my old tv LG 32LH2000 when i had a ledstrain. I do not know about its matrix parameters you can help me to find it. I will not return this laptop so it will be possible to connect it to my 8bit display dell u2715h and check your idea

arturpanteleev

Well I've just have tried Iris® Xe Graphics with an 8bit monitor and it is still terrible for my eyes 🙁

I do not know how does it work, but it is so pity. Now i cant use modern processors even with my "good" monitors

Clokwork

That's unsettling. I wanted to order a laptop with Xe graphics and now I am concerned.

arturpanteleev

Yes. I hope AMD graphics doesnt have this problem.

By the way: I had troubles with my comfort monitor when I tried to use it with MacBook 2019 that use intel iris too

I mean with external monitor. Built in displays terrible form me in both laptop.

ensete

I don't think it;s the screen at all. All my experience points to what is driving the screen as the problem.

I can take a known good screen, that causes me zero issues, and hook it up to another display source, and it will be unusable.

arturpanteleev

Hello, I have bad news.

The problem exists not only in intel iris

I tried Lenovo with AMD Ryzen™ 7 PRO 4750U and plug it into my old comfort Dell U2715h and…I had a really bad eyestrain

It means that all modern(2021+) integrated mobile graphics make eyestrain even with "good" monitors. It is a really big problem. It means that I should collect old processors with old graphics module (

Business-Eyes

arturpanteleev Hey men I feel your pain, I work on a modern laptop, so I know the feeling, but I been thinking about getting a gsync laptop just need to save up, I have a gtx 1650super in my desktop right now and it works fine for me, I starting to realize that you can pair any CPU with a GPU that works for you and you will be fine as long as the GPU handles everything thing with the display, that's where gsync laptops come in, they give the option of using the Nvidia GPU all the time even when not gaming.

There is a thread on here where someone was saying that their eyestrain went away when gaming on a gaming laptop, which means they get not eyestrain because the nvidia GPU in driving the laptop monitor.

So return what you have and try a gsync laptop, make sure that it has the option of disabling integrated gpu

And if you do, let me know if it's works.

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