Serious question, has a change.org petition ever achieved anything?

    ensete very good question indeed. I am not sure. The way I see it, the more attention it brings, the higher the possibility it can catch the eye of publications that bring the issue to light.

    Take for instance the silly petition to make Will and Jada smith stop oversharing their lives. That. That there caught media attention because of how many signatures it got 😅 .

    I'd love it if larger YouTubers covered this as well.

      There's got to be people searching "headache iphone 13" on Google etc, right? I mean that's how most of us found this place. @Slacor any idea how folks are finding us?

      I wonder if we could advertise the petition using Google AdWords, Facebook Ads, etc. I'd gladly pay.

      We could even make a simple static website explaining our issues that links to our petition, this forum, @jen great website, @martin website on heterophoria, the 150+ page MacRumors forums, etc. Could further on send it to news websites.

      Any thoughts? I'm a little short on free time at the moment.

      Awhile back I created a "Call to action" template that can be used.

      ---
title: Demo Title
active: false
forum_thread: 11258
post_length: 200
faq:
  - q: aut illum labore autem et officia nam ea molestiae dolorem
    a: |
      blanditiis asperiores sequi dolor ullam fuga veniam id optio modi incidunt illum culpa quos dolorem quam tempora quibusdam in veniam sunt minima nulla voluptate ducimus aliquid nemo dolore recusandae voluptas et velit perferendis temporibus at vero rerum velit ut ducimus fugit qui non expedita velit exercitationem nihil sapiente mollitia odit facilis et qui minima qui sunt perferendis repellendus quod molestiae neque veritatis magni quia omnis dolores id accusantium est eos id autem placeat aut odio qui ipsa nihil et non accusantium laboriosam laborum odio quae et consequuntur aut aut fugiat vitae in accusantium in earum nulla enim consequatur eveniet laudantium
  - q: Is this viable?
    a: 'Yes'
---


Nesciunt nemo fugiat ex eligendi voluptates iste ipsam. Ea dolores error explicabo exercitationem reprehenderit. Recusandae eligendi blanditiis repudiandae est unde. Et vel omnis quisquam quod fugit fugit reprehenderit omnis. Aspernatur est et dolores deserunt quia cumque.

      As for how ledstrain is being found, I don't use Google analytics, but they do provide me with search terms I'm happy to provide for this month:
      12_21_entries.csv

      Top queriesClicksImpressionsCTRPosition
      ledstrain17620088%1
      astigmatism and led lights10312378.33%3.92
      astigmatism led lights10117305.84%7.14
      led headlights and astigmatism10014336.98%6.86
      led lights astigmatism8377410.72%4.53
      led strain335263.46%1
      iphone 13 pro eye strain2516415.24%6.43
      sd 170m-a243446.98%3.52
      nano ips eye strain2012516%3.12
      s2721dgf eye strain168319.28%2.07
      astigmatism and led headlights153005%7.63
      astigmatism led1510614.15%4.6
      led headlights astigmatism142854.91%8.16
      dell s2721dgf eye strain136021.67%2.73
      astigmatism led headlights122075.8%10.83
      sd170m-a129412.77%1.67
      led lights and astigmatism128214.63%4.43
      iphone 13 eye strain102264.42%8.43
      ips eye strain8918.79%4.18

        Slacor Awhile back I created a "Call to action" template that can be used.

        For advertising the site to users who have related issues I could potentially see such a template being useful.

        For outreach to companies I disagree this is an ideal format. I realize this may be a bitter pill to swallow, but what I think is really needed is some of our own empirical research with some probable root causes properly articulated so engineers and other investigators can't shot us down with "we checked with our expensive sensor thingy and the screen itself doesn't flicker, so therefore there is no eyestrain" and other weak arguments.

            ensete I'm not sure, but I kind of get the feeling that change.org petitions are more of a "marketing" exercise and a "feel good measure". One thing I do know is they like to subscribe you to marketing email lists 😛

              I am beginning my journey into research as we speak. I am tallying up the cost to capture temporal dithering in the act. That alone doesn't necessarily do anything, but it can be a great A/B test for some as I get to test more and more devices. For instance, I can use an older iPad Pro running version X but can't use the new iPhone 13. Does one use FRC on a lower bit panel to mimic a higher bit panel (temporal dithering)? I hope to find out.

              I am still working on the test process, but I believe I have nailed down the hardware I need. This is going to be quite expensive.

              I still think this petition can't hurt. If anything it can help bring more of those who face the issue to forums such as this. We might even end up getting some specialists to chime in as the population grows.

              I'd still appreciate some input on the title.

                Clokwork I totally agree, and despite my problem is not connected to dithering or flicker and there's no way to capture it yet, I see any additional media resonance as a step forward. We just need not to make mistake attributing all the cases to one single problem (doesn't matter which one) and collect all the empirical evidence.
                A petition can't hurt.
                (But eyes can. Dumb marketing slogan created, lol)
                Also any systematized research similar to one Jen made can help a lot.

                  • [deleted]

                  • Post #31

                  Can we do this petition not just to Apple but to all manufacturers? I believe many of us are having problems with a huge range of devices. The manufacturers are doing things behind their hardware and software to 'manipulate' the display signal. They succeeded in making those 'things' an inherent part of the product or technology by simply ignoring, not informing or announcing to the consumers in any way, let alone giving us an option to control / turn it off. It is sure a violation of consumer rights.

                  We members of this forum can set up a petition together and spread the words to make this issue known (and sign. of course, lol). I already thought of some results that we expect and can put in the petition content.

                  I'm definitely on board with broadening the scope of the petition, but I believe it needs to be somewhat specific when it comes to what is asked from. The "who" part can definitely apply to manufacturers.

                  We may need to limit this to flicker. Another petition may be in order to address the other issues unless someone can concisely word this to make it clear what is being asked.

                  There is definitely something going on with Mac OS software since the Big Sur update came out. I have a 2017 MBP and I’ve not had any issues related to eye strain or headaches with it the entire time I’ve had it, through many OS updates. Then last year I started having this issue. I first noticed it on Catalina with Safari 14 where I’d have trouble focusing and headache like symptoms when viewing content rendered in Safari 14 (but not 13). The rest of the apps and UI were fine. Then when I updated my machine to Big Sur the whole UI and all of the apps started bothering me in the same way. I reinstalled Catalina and kept it at Safari 13 and it’s back to being totally fine. I notice that almost all of the Macs I the Apple store now have this effect on me. I’ve tried all of the M1 machines. They all of course run Big Sur as the minimum OS, so I can’t try Catalina on them to see if it would fix the issue.

                  Anyways I’d support such a petition. I filed a feedback with Apple as both a user and a developer. My hope is they can create an accessibility mode to help with this.

                  I am also sensitive to PWM on oled iPhones, but this effect on Macs is different. I have a history of migraines and I have a slight problem with convergence in my right eye which is transient, but it hasn’t ever caused me issues with screens and I’ve been using one type of screen or another since the 1980s.

                    asus389 I have a feeling we are extremely similar in terms of experiences with some variations. I do have an OLED iPhone X with no issues. I refuse to update to iOS 15. (I'm on 14.7.1) I did so with my old 10.5 iPad Pro and now I can't use it anymore. Every time I've been in the Apple store in the last couple of years roughly (I stopped going), I couldn't look at any of their iPads, MacBooks, or iPhones for long as I felt very off.

                    I have a 2017 15" MacBook Pro. All seemed ok for me until I updated to Monterey. I thought it was my anxiety, but sure enough, things seemed "off". I am able to use it, but it isn't my favorite screen. I had to check again, but regarding my iPad, ipadOS 14.7 was my last eye/brain stable operating system.

                    Tin foil hat time. I think that if they didn't add temporal dithering all at once, they have been slowly dosing us with it over updates. I hope to quantify this once I get all of the tools I need.

                    • bkdo replied to this.

                        The titles are limited to 90 words. So far this is what I have

                        Please don't use Temporal Dithering. The visual & cognitive effects are harmful & lasting

                        The second page gives the opportunity to name companies.

                        I welcome your input!

                          Clokwork I'd do something like: Please stop using PWM, temporal dithering, and all other sources of flicker.

                              Clokwork

                              I've had the exact same experience with iOS as you have. I updated one of my iPads from 14.6 to 14.8, and then immediately started noticing the usual symptoms (Gritty eyes, eye strain, headaches, etc). I wasn't sure if it was just a fluke, so I updated an older eyestrain-free iPhone as well - I instantly noticed the same thing.

                              I definitely agree with your theory that it's been a slow adoption of dithering (Or whatever they've added). I first noticed that any device with the A12 chip (LCD or not) caused eye strain, and now it seems anything over 14.8/15.0 has the same flicker. I was hoping that as screens got better and better, they wouldn't need to use these display tricks to emulate colors, but that's clearly not happening 😐️

                              I'm holding onto my 8+ on 14.6 and iPad 7th Gen on 14.4 for dear life, lol.

                                  bkdo I highly suggest submitting this feedback to Apple, especially accessibility AT apple.com.

                                  • bkdo replied to this.

                                      ryans

                                      I just got off the phone with an accessibility rep, I explained the situation and am getting my notes forwarded to the engineering team. No idea if it'll lead anywhere, but it's something. I've called before + submitted feedback online and nothing happened, but we'll see. I was told that I'll get a response within a week or two, and they may reach out directly if they need more info.

                                      Maybe it's a good idea for each of us to call and share our experiences? I'd hope that if a lot of us call, they'd acknowledge it as an issue worth addressing.

                                          ryans Thanks for the feedback! the "and all other sources of flicker" part may be too open ended. I believe if we do our best to specify, it can make more of an impact.

                                            dev