Hi everyone, I wanted to share a rather unusual solution that has been a blessing for me so far, and might help others as well: namely, externally applied sea salt. I have been using this (or baking soda, which seems to be not quite as effective as sea salt) as an after-the fact remedy for many years; that is, when I already have symptoms, I apply the sea salt, and the symptoms are then largely cleared. However, my current situation, which I have described in another post -- my Kindle was hijacked by Amazon with an automatic firmware update and it now causes me symptoms, so I am forced to look at my laptop screen alone when I am working, instead of alternately at the laptop screen and at the Kindle (the text I would be working on was on the Kindle) -- led me to experiment a bit more, and I discovered that the sea salt works preventatively as well. The method is to wet my forehead, take a smallish-to-moderate amount of fine sea salt in my hand and run a little water on it from the faucet, forming a kind of pastish consistency (not too dry and not too wet), then slap it onto my forehead so that it sticks there. I ensure it covers a moderate area of my lower forehead: my brow just above the area between the eyebrows, and perhaps a half an inch or so to either side, as well as a larger area above that (three or so inches upward and two or so inches to each side from that higher part. But I haven't worked it out to an exact science, that's simply what I've been doing and it has been working). It can be a bit messy: some salt ends up falling on the ground, bits of it fall onto my face, a small amount of salty water also drips down onto my face for around a minute or two afterward. I used to do this only to clear the symptoms after screen use (in cases where I wasn't using the Kindle or printing things out), but now that I have no screen that I can look at without symptoms, and the symptoms are really unpleasant (and also affect the quality of my work), I experimented further and found that I can do it preventatively. That is, I slap the sea-salt paste onto my forehead and, with clumps of salt occasionally falling off and salty water dripping a little and everything (this is mostly an issue at the very beginning, after a minute or two the salt tends mostly to just stick on there), I sit down at my computer to work, salt on my forehead, often for hours. When I am working, I then get absolutely no symptoms for as long as I use the computer. If I read a lengthy article on the screen, it will eventually start to affect me a little with time, but then if I revert back to working, or step away from the computer -- with the sea-salt paste still on my forehead -- the symptoms gradually clear again. I know this probably sounds quite strange, and I can already hear a chorus echoing through the cyber-ether: How could this possibly work? What could the mechanism of action be? I don't have an answer to this. In some circles, sea salt and baking soda are said to clear, to "suck up" "negative" energies. Modern, respectable people don't tend to believe in this sort of thing. And I consider it doubtful as well, since I have tried attaching my laptop screen to a projector, and I got very bad symptoms from the projected screen (without the salt on, to be noted) -- if there were "negative" energies, how would they be reaching me from the reflected light on the wall, far away? I actually don't remember how exactly I came upon the idea of doing this (after screen use), it was so many years ago. But for me it works extremely well. Except that it's a bit messy (actually I may have made the process out to be somewhat messier than it really is), looks pretty funny if someone sees you with the clump of salt on your forehead, and would be rather impracticable in public places. (Though as an after-the-fact remedy, I suppose one could escape to the restroom and do the "procedure" there, leaving the salt on for a few minutes to clear away the symptoms). Note again that I use fine, not coarse sea salt. And one could experiment with baking soda as well -- I have had mixed results, varying with different brands of baking soda. Currently, fine sea salt is my go-to. I realize that this method may sound strange, but the effect has been so dramatic for me, and I know that so many of us are having such a horrendous time with this problem, that I felt it makes sense for me to share it. I would be very interested to know, if any of you try it out, whether it helps you. Note of course that we may not all have the same problem (and we certainly don't all have the same symptoms). I don't get headaches or eye pain or any of that. I turn into a "zombie," is the best way I can describe it: it's as if my brain turns to putty, I start feeling disoriented, my thinking becomes slower and clumsy, I start making mistakes when I type, I start feeling disconnected with the world around me, I can no longer interact smoothly with other people, and my joy and richness of perception of the world is sapped. It is also worth mentioning that I can watch videos on any screen indefinitely with no ill effect. If I am looking at anything else on the screen -- particularly reading text -- I get the symptoms. Very curious to hear about your experiences if you decide to try out the "sea salt paste."

I wonder if it has any similarities with this stuff, wet salt is cooling if I remember my high school chemistry correctly.

could be magnesium, etc in the salt? trying now with some celtic grey salt. quite refreshing at least. burns.

I havent watched this yet - huberman on salt, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azb3Ih68awQ&list=PLPNW_gerXa4Pc8S2qoUQc5e8Ir97RLuVW&index=6

reaganry Let me know how you go!

I doubt the salt is doing anything other than holding the water on your skin longer, leading to an extended evaporative effect, which cools the skin longer. Thats probably where your relief is coming from.

ameliaaria Wonderful, very happy to hear this!

ensete Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts. I realize the mechanism of the sea salt is as yet unclear, but I am sure it is quite different from simply holding water on the skin leading to cooler skin. My screen-use symptoms are very strong and debilitating, and the effect of the sea salt is remarkable, to the extent that when I have it on my forehead, I get absolutely no symptoms at all, for hours at a time. I can't imagine that keeping my forehead continually wet, with water alone, or that simply having cooler skin on my forehead, would have such an effect. But thanks again for sharing your thoughts and contributing to the discussion and exploration of the "sea salt phenomenon" -- all ideas and sharing-of-experiences are of course very much welcome!

I'm sorry, but this is yet again one of those "solutions" that lower our chances to achieve any real solution. Imagine a doctor or scientist investigating this topic and reading that people smack gobs of sea salt to their forehead, which helps them tolerate screens better. Yeah, lets all go to a customer meeting and in the middle slap a moist ball of sea salt to the forehead, saying, "this help me tolerate LCD screens"

Sea salt, externally applied -- the best thing I've found so far

daniels

Maxx Thanks for your input. Yes, this is the obstacle: the strangeness of the method, both in its appearance and in its unclear mechanism of action. This is why I expect some people will probably read my original post and won't bother trying it because it seems so odd.

What I would suggest would be to simply: give it a try. See if it helps you, and report back.

If this helps others anywhere close to as much as it has helped (and is helping) me, it would be major. And the only thing to lose would be the couple dollars spent on the package of sea salt, and a bit of salt on the floor.

As for the doctors and scientists, they certainly haven't helped us much yet. Rather than wait for them, I'd prefer to have something that works now. And for me (and for one other poster here so far), this works now.

JTL

I see this as one of two sides. One being medical related experiments to attempt to mitigate issues related to eyestrain and related phenomena, the other being empirical "triggers" of this issue (like dithering/FRC, PWM or other physical properties of LCD panels) that still exist and should still be solved.

Speaking from experience, potentially having something attempting to interfere with normal visual processing when eyes are damaged and working around the issue is probably just "buying time" until you become more sensitive, at which point certain workarounds are moot.

It's important we don't conflate the two when attempting to investigate the technical causes of this issue and in communication with other stakeholders (like in communication with OEMs)

daniels

JTL Speaking from experience, potentially having something attempting to interfere with normal visual processing when eyes are damaged and working around the issue is probably just "buying time" until you become more sensitive, at which point certain workarounds are moot.

Thanks for the interesting reflections. Just regarding your second paragraph: nothing would be interfering with normal visual processing here: the salt just goes on the forehead. (If the salt went into the eyes, that would interfere with vision!)

It's also possible that the problem is not one of eye damage at all. Or that for some of us it is and for some of us it isn't.

JTL

daniels nothing would be interfering with normal visual processing here

I was referring to the cause of "this issue" as being the problem interfering with visual processing and other things related to eyes. Not the salt.

daniels

JTL Thanks for the clarification!

reaganry

JTL I get it, but we'll never be able to control the lights in our extended environments on an ongoing basis, so we'll need hacks like this one to cope.

Seagull

daniels I realize the mechanism of the sea salt is as yet unclear, but I am sure it is quite different from simply holding water on the skin leading to cooler skin

Please explore! you could try the cooling patches or different kinds of salt, and observe if it helps.

daniels

Seagull Please explore! you could try the cooling patches or different kinds of salt, and observe if it helps.

Thanks, this is definitely worth exploring! The scientific mindset of experimenting systematically would be an excellent one here. As for me, for the moment I've found what works very well, and don't enjoy getting the symptoms, so I'm not too eager at the moment to experiment for the sake of "research" and finding out more. My approach is purely pragmatic right now. But if anyone else is interested in experimenting in this way, it would indeed be fabulous.

ensete

daniels

Try a menthol rub on your forehead and see if you get the same effect. There are several "anti migraine" stick that are sold OTC that "work" by evaporation cooling the skin.

reaganry

got zero effect with mortons sea salt, but good effect with liquid magnesium drops(evaporated seawater)

daniels

reaganry got zero effect with mortons sea salt, but good effect with liquid magnesium drops(evaporated seawater)

Thanks for trying and reporting back. I did try for a time with some Korean sea salt that I bought from an Asian grocery store, and the effect was not particularly good. I have been using, and having success with, what are probably higher quality, purer sea salts. Very interesting about the liquid magnesium!

ensete

daniels Have you tried a non salt based evaporative test? It would be interesting to see if it was something in the salt itself that is helping you, or an effect the salt is having that could be replicated with a non salt product that would create the same effect

daniels

ensete Have you tried a non salt based evaporative test? It would be interesting to see if it was something in the salt itself that is helping you, or an effect the salt is having that could be replicated with a non salt product that would create the same effect

Yes, this would a great thing to test. I'm a bit hesitant right now to do much more testing, since if what I am testing doesn't work, though it will have advanced knowledge on the subject, I will have suffered unpleasant symptoms. That's why I'm sticking to the sea salt paste at the moment. Some of my reluctance is probably due to several recent months of enduring the symptoms, before I found that I could use the sea salt preventatively. Perhaps I will eventually pluck up my courage and give it a go for the sake of research. Reaganry's suggestion of the liquid magnesium in particular intrigues me, and would be less messy, and more amenable to use in public, than the salt. Note by the way that I have had success in the past with baking soda, "curatively," though have not yet tried it preventatively.

evthelegend

daniels Hi Daniel,

someone linked me your post and I have word for word the exact same symptoms as you, have you figured out a more convienent way for relief?

daniels

evthelegend Hi evthelegend, thanks for your message, I just saw it today because I do not log on to this forum regularly. The same symptoms word for word, fascinating.

About your question as to whether I have found a more convenient solution: in fact, I have started experimenting with something new just today and have been obtaining very interesting results. Perhaps the two of us can form a sort of "trial team" if you like.

The method is to hold a medium sized rock in your hand while using the device, or afterwards after the appearance of symptoms.

My speculation is that those of us who have this problem do not have sufficient connection with the earth. There are negative energies that are emitted by these devices which we do not sufficiently understand, and which are probably not sufficiently measurable with the means currently available to us. The connection with the earth, or grounding to the earth, serves to flush out a certain amount of these energies. For those of us in whom this natural connection to the earth is lacking to a sufficient degree for whatever reason, the energies are not flushed out and thus give rise to the various and variegated symptoms that we all report. I speculate that the reason no one has been able to find a root cause or causes for this problem on this forum over its 10 plus years of existence is that we are looking in the wrong place, and because this root cause is not sufficiently measurable or materially ascertainable at the present time.

Holding a rock appears to help with this grounding, this connection to the earth. I have only begun experimenting with this today. The results so far: holding a medium-sized rock after a mildish but definitely noticeable trigger (looking briefly a few times at my Samsung tablet screen, which if I'm not very careful causes me terrible symptoms) resulted in the disappearance of the symptoms after a short time. Holding the same rock while reading text continuously for some time on my laptop screen lessened the symptoms compared to what they would usually be, but mild symptoms appeared nonetheless. After then looking away from the screen and continuing to hold the rock, the symptoms disappeared after a relatively short time.

Note that the size of the rock I have been using is roughly that of a tennis ball, and is somewhat heavy to hold in the hand (but not uncomfortably so).

I'm sure many people are going to find this method strange, and inexplicable within the framework of the current predominant positivist, scientistic worldview.

If you would like to give it a go and, together with me, give this a trial run, I would be very interested to hear your results.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

daniels Holding a rock appears to help with this grounding, this connection to the earth. I have only begun experimenting with this today.

LOL I used to do this back when I was stuck with a terrible mini-LED MBP. I had to hold something in my other hand to be able to even barely tolerate that screen

(it didn't matter if it was organic, just smooth, I could hold a USB mouse made from smooth plastic in my pocket and get the same effect. Of course I used a polished stone sometimes too. Interested to know if it keeps working for you even with non-natural objects as long as they're smooth)

What you're touching seems to directly affect the ways your eyes process things somehow.

Sometimes it's the opposite -- I've noticed that on all "bad laptop screens" when I press ctrl or shift repeatedly with my left pinky, the screen will go in and out of focus constantly. On some bad screens I have to do this to tolerate reading, but on others doing this actually causes some sharp eyestrain.

In that case its probably my eyes trying to watch my finger in my peripheral vision, moving slightly, and whatever weird stuff the screen is doing is getting processed in a slightly different way.

(a similar one is that I can see LCD inversion and temporal dithering whenever I move my head, but not when I'm still)

However, on my "actually good" (low-to-no strain) laptop screens, that effect doesn't happen at all lol, I can mash a key and the screen 95% of the time text will stay just as crisp and the strain level doesn't change. (Although, I do notice the very corners of my vision outside of the screen slightly fading while doing this…)

evthelegend

daniels maybe you should try a grounding mat? it would be the same as you touching the actual earth instead of carpet or hardwood floor. im assuming that would be the same affect as holding a rock.

daniels

JTL Yes, this is possible indeed, and definitely worth a try! Thank you for the idea.

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