Deepdeep Yes I think programs like Eye Saver helps alot, but it is better to have a device that give us the ability to control the brightness or led power to the level we want, for example If I had to put a monitor or a tv at 600 nits to eliminate the flicker It will burn my eyes no matter what color overlay is displaying. You can test this, put the darkest overlay with Eye Saver and then increase or lower the brightness of your display via hardware, you will see a color change whith the colors becoming lighter and grayer when you increase the brightness of your display, that is the led light energy that is going to your eyes through the lcd screen, because LCD crystals cant fully block the light the led backlighting is emitting, with oled its different because each pixel emmits its own light, its a shame oled flickers too.

    The problem is definitely related with the light emission. I know this because spending little time at front of a new display not only causes me eye strain but also a high skin pain. Refresh rate has nothing to do with it. It is related with the backlight type.

    It happens to me with all new displays (TV, monitors, phones, notebooks and LED bulbs). I can use devices with old kind of backlights 24hs a day without any problem. Specially devices with CCFL or old LED backlights. The only exception I detected is with some big CCFL monitors with more nits (cd per m2) that also cause me problems.

    The confirmation to it is that with old Samsung LED TV, that was the first device that hurts me, I solve this problem by lowering the backlight option to the minimum. After that I could use it as normal.

    It seems related with the maximum nits of the backlight that is always on, and with his light spectrum. Lowering the bright doesn't solve the problem, only the backlight. It seems that the dangerous light emitted by the backlight couldn't be completely filtered by the bright or contrast of the LCD that is at front of the light source.

    Displays with PWM is on at the maximum power of the backlight for a fraction of time, and is a very intense and harmful light. If I put the brightness at 100%, apps like oled saver doesn't solve the problem at all, at least not enough.

      Abeabe RobC Say you have a display with no pwm and in case (1) you just reduce the brightness of the backlight down to 10% which = "X" nits, and in case (2) you keep the backlight at 100% and reduce the brightness with an overlay (eg with Eye Saver) to the same X nits, I don't think there will be more light energy reaching the eyes in case (2). If there is more reaction in the second case I think it might be due to something other than just light intensity, like maybe a different spectral distribution at higher LED brightness, or ???

        Deepdeep Yes there is a lot of difference beetween 1 and 2, in a complete dark room you can use this video to test your monitor or display https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9T97ZBos5Y, it is a very dark video so you dont need an overlay like Eye Saver, the blacks in the video will be a lot better with a monitor brightness at 0 and contrast at 80 than brightness at 100 and contrast at 0, and if you use an ips screen you will see alot more of ips glow in the corners and grey blacks with brightness at 100, that is because the led backlight power is going through the lcd crystals to your eyes, for example I am using an Alienware aw3418dw and it have a minimum brightness of 23 nits, and it is a world of difference for eye confort.

        Deepdeep That is exactly what I'm trying to say. There is a different spectral distribution. The backlight with higher intensity generates a harmful emission that the LCD layer couldn't block at all though you put the brigthness to 0%. I confirmed this situation because I tryied it, it also hurts my skin but in less intensity. The backlights with lower nits doesn't generate a harmful emission. In old LED TVs (not PWM) lowering the backlight intensity (not the brightness), causes the disappearance of symptoms. I'm an electronic engineer and know about it. When you apply a higher current to a LED or CCFL light you generate a kind of light that get closer to the frequency of UV light that is more harmful. Warm light is better (3000 Kelvin) than cold (6500 Kelvin or higher).

          RobC In my post when I'm talking about brightness I refer to the settings of the LCD layer that blocks the light that comes from the backlight, not the real backlight intensity that in some displays has his own settings to regulate it. These separated settings are true in older displays with DC dimming, (not PWM). In newer displays with PWM the brightness is regulated by the percetage of the cycle in which the backlight is on at 100% of intensity. In this case Oled saver kind of apps are equivalent to set the brightness of the LCD layer to a lower value, but not to lowering the intensity of the backlight that is the real problem. That is why it is not enough for everyone.

          RobC Hurting your skin is not a normal reaction and you need to consider that some of this might be psychological because logically, you should hurt every time from every light source including the sun since they all put out way more power than a little backlight. If everything is fine except for the backlights of monitors, then you have some of your answer.

          And no, you don't get ultraviolet light by turning up the brightness on phosphors that are specced to emit at specific nm frequencies in the visible light range. That would be pretty wild if so much current was flowing that it shifted to ultraviolet. I can't see that passing energy star.

            Sunspark The hurting of the skin might be psychological based on the belief that the light is actually "harmful" but it might also be part of a nervous-system response to something about the screen eg pwm, dithering, etc. I get various and varying reactions including itching and aggravation of the psoriasis on my scalp (which happens almost immediately), "sticky-eyes", brain-fog etc none of which happens on a "good" device.

            I don't think that the intensity of the light from displays causes any direct harm/damage, at least at average brightness levels, but I wonder if there is something about the light itself (other than stuff like pwm, dithering etc) from some backlights that some people are reactive to, like maybe differing spectral distributions, which might be the cause of my reactions to some devices with no pwm. I haven't looked into dithering yet because only one of my problematic devices is a Windows one and I don't know that there is any fix for dithering on Android or IOS.

            Sunspark Everything is fine except for the backlights of certain displays, that are always the same, and never others. Psychological reason is the typical answer to others when you don't know enough of something. It only hurts the part of the skin that is exposed, and the more time exposed or the more the intensity of the exposition, higher is the sensation. I know it is not common but is the same answer that all of this forum receives from others when we talk about our eyestrain. Something is bad about these backlights an I'm sensitive enough to detect it through skin too, not only through eyes.

            • RobC replied to this.

              RobC The same happens with some bulb lights, that doesn't have dithering at all. The problem is with the source of the light.

              RobC Have you adjusted your diet as the link advises?

              • RobC replied to this.

                Sunspark I adjusted it but it not solved the problem. What I was trying to show with this articule is the intrapersonal variability of the discomfort threshold. That 's why we are here, because we are affected by some displays and other part of the population not. In our case, some backlights are worse and activate our discomfort surpassing our threshold instead of others that not.

                I haven't read the whole article but the pics with the differences in the spectral readings of various devices are interesting. Do you think the light is causing damage to your skin or just pain?

                • RobC replied to this.
                  a year later

                  RobC

                  Hi - I’m thrilled to find this discussion thread! Your described symptoms in response to screen time are nearly identical to what I’ve been experiencing since starting my job as a technical writer several years ago (and being given a new Lenovo work laptop - along with 1-2 additional monitors). In particular, I noticed shortly after getting this PC system that I became very fatigued at the end of the day, feeling as though I couldn’t stand another 10 min of screen time. Over the next few weeks, I noticed that my face felt exceptionally dry after 3-6+ hours of screen time, I also had significant skin pain, as though I was being burned (or sunburned), after every workday. I even noticed a characteristic lines along the nasolabial folds of my face after a day of work - these would go away after a weekend away from the work screens, but we’re back after getting back to work the following week.

                  This has been going on for 2+ years now, and I feel my skin is increasingly damaged. I’ve lost a lot of what I suspect is collagen in my cheek areas, and have developed true wrinkles along my laugh lines (nasolabial folds) - note my skin was wrinkle free. My skin is perpetually red and feels dry and burned all the time. My lips feel burned too.

                  Importantly, as per RobC’s comments, I’ve never noticed screen time issues with my main non-work computer, an older ASUS ROG laptop (~10 yrs old). In fact, I still use this PC with no issues (I’m currently looking into figuring out what type of backlight system it has, maybe CCFL or just an older LED).

                  Another parallel with RobC is that within a year of using these new screens, I lost my night vision. As he described, my vision at night is just terrible now, things are fuzzy, and sometimes I literally put my hands out in front of me so that I don’t fall. Prior to getting this system I had excellent night vision (would drive all my friends around).

                  Obviously, I’m really upset about all of the above, but unfortunately am in a situation where I need to continue with my current job.

                  My question here is that did you (RobC), find any kind of resolution? Has using screens with older backlighting technology helped? Or have you found any other solution? I’m also considering trying a projector, but I think finding a screen that didn’t nuke my face every day would be easier…

                  Thanks in advance, love this forum!

                  9 days later

                  hi @Nyyount , it is a good news to find someone with similar symptoms. In general CCFL monitors are much better than LED ones, but there are some cases I´ve found that are also harmful for me. I think that the rules is that we have to avoid LED flicker screens (PWM) and the maximum amount of nits needs to be much lower than the lasts displays offers now. At home I need to use CCFL monitors for work, and an old mobile phone. Most of the displays got worse since 2017, but there were some bad displays from 10 years ago too, The general rule found is, the more attractive the screen the worse it feels

                  at least sunscreen should solve your skin problems if it's caused by light

                  dev