KM The same devices were connected to my old Sony Bravia, and I had no issues watching that. The OLED gives a very specific eyeball pinch after a while.

As an update though, I seem to be having less problems with the TV. I'm not sure if my watching time just happens to be less as of late, or that I'm just getting used to the TV. Another notable change though is that I turned off that fake-looking TrueMotion setting. My brain always hated that (gave me nausea on my Series 6 40" Samsung LCD I bought in 2008. Never had problems since)

  • KM likes this.

    Monie Maybe we are twins, but who's the evil one? >=)

    I only knew of the Dell U2410 because my workplace had rolled it out to the whole floor. I would imagine that a company puts a lot of research into the most comfortable monitors to stare at for 40 hours a week, every week, as to not have their employees whining and complaining constantly about viewing comfort. I liked my work monitor so much that I later bought one for home!

    Your guess is as good as mine as to what the problem is. A PWM-free LED is worse than my PWM-positive Dell U2410. My guess is either an "allergy" to the spectrum of light produced by an LED, temporal dithering, or some other elusive mystery!

    I don't think the Retina MBP has any PWM. Your OnePlus phone may not have it either. I also can't detect any in my iPhone 6S+ I will eventually get problems with my 6S+, and it does feel like the "LED-pain" I talked about. I also thought it might be due to the smaller screen and smaller text. However, I remember the most comfortable iPhone as being the iPhone 3G. I lost it in a Canadian snowbank once when it fell out of my phone case =(

    I agree with your assessment that you seem more susceptible to PWM, while my problem seems to be something else. After losing my iPhone 3G (which I think is CCFL), my next phone was the iPhone 5, and I had to keep that phone at its minimum brightness, or I would eventually get my "LED pain" symptoms. It's the same deal with the iPhone 6S+, but if I only use it for the few minutes a day I need to, then I'm relatively OK.

      5 days later

      my symptom is headaches, no eye strain.

      I now bought an LG 55EG910V OLED TV. I can see what you talked about. It's harsh on my eyes - it doesn't feel too different from any standard LED-backlit monitor. I tried many kinds of settings and am still searching for a solution, but this is going to be tough. It's in no way comparable to my OnePlus 3.

      I learned LG, in their TVs, use white OLEDs only + color filters.
      I also found this short article where they claim their OLED TVs emit 3x times less blue light than backlit devices: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/english/news/ict/6908-blue-light-hazard-lcd-tvs-may-emit-3x-harmful-light-oled-tvs
      As there are no further links or sources, I don't know if it's true.

      Eyes are red, burning, and if I watch for too long I get small headaches.
      I plugged in my PC with a supposedly still "good" setup (Windows 7 + old NVIDIA card), but this didn't help at all. It seems the eye strain is related either to the OLED light or to LG's "WebOS", which is probably creating the final video output.

      I'd say it's the PWM flickering that is the problem with the LG OLED's. It's clealry detectable with a DSLR.

      I´m from Sweden and i also get eye strain from my OLED-TV (55eg920v). But the strange thing is that i do not get any eye strain when i use it to surf the Web or look at pictures etc.

      But when i look at regular tv or a movie the strain begins in my left eye after about five minutes.
      It's like something is wrong with the way it handles motion and if i turn on the "True Motion setting" the strain gets even worse.
      I have over the years had trouble with devices with led-backlight/pwm and i hoped oled was the saviour for us with "crazy eyes" 🙁
      But i think i have found the perfect tv for my eyes, a Sony kd49xd7004. A friend of mine have one and i can look at it for hours without any discomfort 🙂

      Maxx: I have suspected that the LG Oled have some high frequency PWM. For many years ago i got a low tinnitus sound in my right ear that come and go. If i look at a led-tv or monitor with pwm the tinnitus-sound gets much worse and i get exactly the same pwm-symptoms after a while with the oled 🙁

      But i have looked at oled-screens that dosen´t bother my eyes (or ear) at all and that is the screens in the Sony Vr-headset.
      I only got a little motionsick from the VR Experience but my eyes was totaly fine. So i have hope for the future oled tv:s 🙂

        5 days later

        I looked at the TV's digital cable video output with a camera on high shutter speed. There is some kind of rapid flicker that is not there when looking at a connected HDMI device (Raspberry Pi). No additional stripes, but rather a whole screen flicker.

        Anyway, I'll return the TV (LG 55EG910V). It's a little more tolerable at 0 brightness and 0 contrast, but the eye strain is still there and it's too heavy. And the picture looks really bad when it's that dark. You can see stripes and other inconsistencies everywhere.

        Jimbo66 But the strange thing is that i do not get any eye strain when i use it to surf the Web or look at pictures etc.

        Do you mean the TV's smart functions like inbuilt web browser and apps, or an attached PC?

            Interesting. I started having a low frequency tinnitus in my right ear about 4 years ago. Could be completely unrelated, but at the time I started having the low frequency tinnitus, I was trying to find a laptop that does not have PWM and I did have some mild irritation due to the PWM.

            The low frequency tinnitus is also not very typical - it is like a truck would be idling outside the house. In fact I noticed it when at the summer house, where it is very quiet - I first thought that there is a truck outside, but then realized that it is tinnitus in my left ear. It has faded over the years and I now hear it only if I really listen carefully in a quiet environment.

            This all sound a bit looney to anyone who does not have any of these problems.

            Maybe there is a connection between the tinnitus and the PWM eye strain? Without any scientific understanding, my uneducated guess would be that the flicker somehow overloads the nervous system which then could also cause the related tinnitus.

              Maybe there is a connection between the tinnitus and the PWM eye strain? Without any scientific understanding, my uneducated guess would be that the flicker somehow overloads the nervous system which then could also cause the related tinnitus.

              Could be. Have you had a scan of your sinuses?

              Sunspark
              Sony R510 has PWM and killed my eyes. I think they changed panels on the cheaper models. I'm waiting for W or X series Sony to go on sale.

                degen You can enable PWM on those Sony TV's. You have to specifically disable all that "motion" garbage. Any of the X or W series should work. I'm in the same position as you but willing to way for prices to fall on them more.

                  Monie

                  "After doing some research, I thought the problem had everything to do with the PWM of my LCD-LED TV. So it's disappointing to hear that such "LED symptoms" happen with PWM-free OLED TVs as well, as I had been intending to purchase one of the new LG OLEDs by the end of 2017. If PWM isn't the problem, then what is?"

                  I think it is three parts:
                  1. PWM (for static images) - none
                  2. Image retention (for video) - lowest
                  3. Response time and overshoot (for video) - lowest

                  http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/image-flicker
                  http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/image-retention-burn-in

                  Notice the lack of OLED in the rankings. You first have to find PWM-free + find a set that can display the image the fastest which reduces motion blur. That combination is required. It's basically Sony or Sony as your choice.

                    reaganry You don't have to stick with CCFL monitors. I am highly sensitive to PWM. We are talking 3 days of eyestrain and migraines after only a few minutes of looking at them.

                    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/flicker_free_database.htm

                    I used the above and can stare at any of the ones confirmed. I use a Dell S2415H. We're talking low brightness in a pitch black room and it feels as good as a CCFL.

                      KM Yes, i mean smart functions like web browser etc. I can use the browser for hours with no eye strain. But if i look at regular tv or a movie the eye strain begins after a few minutes, it´s very frustrating 🙁

                      But i sold the Oled-TV to my ex wife a few days ago and she has no problems at all with it. I have bought a Sony KD55XD8505B instead (US version is X850D) and my eye problems has almost disappeared.
                      I can feel a very slight irritation in the left eye, but it will certainly disappear with time. It will probably take a while before the eyes have recovered from the time with the OLED-TV.

                      • KM likes this.

                        Yes, i mean smart functions like web browser etc. I can use the browser for hours with no eye strain. But if i look at regular tv or a movie the eye strain begins after a few minutes, it´s very frustrating

                        I have something similar, I have a Panasonic 55" that I can only tolerate when the screen is in "Game" mode. Any other mode triggers eye strain.

                        Maxx i started a thread somewhere on here something about earplugs reducing symptoms..

                          9 days later

                          A few days ago i was to my ex-wife and looked at regular tv on the Oled-tv and to my surprice i didn´t get any eye strain at all. She lives in a apartment and have cable channels but the picture is not good. It looks like a low resolution analog transmission with grainy, fuzzy picture and for some reason i get no problems with my eyes?
                          But i have a theory whats wrong and it has something to do with the image processing/motion on todays LG OLED-TV:s.
                          I have read on forums that people can see judder on the LG B6 OLED-TV and to get around the problem is to connect a external device (PC, Console etc) and choose PC as HDMI-input.
                          Today i was to my ex-wife and connected my computer to the oled and checked if the 920 has the same judder-problem as the B6.
                          On Youtube there is video with two balls, one ball at 24fps and a second ball at 60fps (

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvUIA7KUjc).

                          I have read that the 60fps ball has judder on the B6 with the internal Youtube app or with a device (PC etc) connected to a hdmi-port that is not named PC (Console, DVD etc).
                          And my discovery is that the 920 has exactly the same motion problem as the B6.
                          If i play the "ball video" in the internal youtube-app there is plenty of judder on the 60fps ball. There is also alot of judder if i play the video on the computer with the hdmi-port set to something else as PC.
                          But if i set the hdmi-port to PC the judder is totaly gone.
                          I also played movies with Kodi/Madvr on the computer at matching 24fps and it was not 100% perfect, but the eye strain was not at all as bad as
                          with the internal videoplayer or regular HDTV-broadcasts with good picture.

                          My theory is that some people see not only the image but also see the errors in the image on a subconscious level if the image processing in the tv is not fast/good enough.
                          The brain gets confused because the conscious and subconscious picture does not match with each other, which leads to eyestrain.
                          In my case i do not get overworked eyes of surfing the web and as I just discovered of bad television broadcasts on the OLED-TV.
                          In both cases the conscious (websurfing, bad broadcast) and subconscious picture (errors) is a better match than a "conscious" sharp picture with a lot of "subconscious" image processing errors.
                          Maybe it´s possible with small steps to train the brain to ignore the errors in the picture?

                            23 days later

                            Jimbo66 Oh wow. Thanks for your post. This is a great discovery!

                            It would be great if others could chip in about their experience with OLEDs. Did you use the internal videoplayer or did you connect an external device?

                              10 days later

                              Jimbo66 Coming back to this post, I really doubt that the judder went away solely because you set something to "PC" — I think that mode would have changed some other setting, such as edge enhancement. People focus on TruMotion as the only issue I think but I've read that edge enhancement can add noise to the picture and thus cause judder. This judder can mimic the effect of high PWM.

                              I think the best way to test the OLED TV is to go to the advanced video settings and turn all of that additional crap off. There should be at least ten different things like noise reduction and edge enhancement and what not that change the picture for the worse.

                              There are a lot of opinions on this thread about OLED TVs but I don't know if everyone tested the TVs by using the proper settings on the TV and by turning all the additional filters off. I really do think Rtings may have been right about the PWM measurements in their review of the LG B6.

                              @Maxx @MagnuM @KM @ensete Can you please provide your opinion?

                              • JTL likes this.
                                dev