hey, everybody. Most of you know, that I'm a very active part of the eyestrain discussion since from the beginning I've startet the intel thread in 2014. I've done so much research and what can I say?! - nothing! Only I can speculate that the eyestrain problem has to do something with pwm, dithering and some weird things going on in the graphics driver. However thats nothing more than that I knew in 2014. Also I can see that more and more people joining the ledstrain forums and are starting threads about topics some of us already discussed very intensely long time ago without any conclusion. So, I don't give up if it's that what you would think now. I'm just trying to find connections why we can "see" things others can't see. I found some doctors who are very interested in that topic and want to help me, help us. As I result I frequently come up with new theories and explanations and try them out on me. Next thing I'm going to do is an amygdalectomy and shortly after that a nasal cartilage operation, cause I get to less air through my nose. Long story short. May some of you give me a brief overview about their health? Don't be afraid, its completely anonymous - I'm just interested if there are any connections. So please tell me about your general state of health. do you often get sick? what about your temporomandibular joint? what about your tonsils? do you have problems breathing through the nose? just everythin you think could be interesting. An additionally non technical way of thinking could'n be a bad thing.

Hello. You said something interesting. I have noticed that it helps a great deal keeping the migraines at bay if I do deep breathes through my mouth instead of breathing through my nose. I don't really know why. I have two concurrent theories: either it is because of a larger influx of oxygen or because the air I'm breathing hits hard the back of my throat and cools it off. Or maybe both? I have a deviated septum and very narrow nostrils. For unrelated reasons a couple of years ago the possibility of having surgery to widen them was put on the table, although I ended up not doing it (too many scary stories about that kind of surgeries..) I'm starting to think that a big trigger for my migraines may well be lack of oxygen or something of the like and that maybe that's the reason that mouth breathing helps me. On the other hand, I've also read a couple of years ago somewhere about a treatment that involved once a month have some sort of analgesic be administrated to the back of your throat. Maybe it's related? I don't know. And I've tried hard but can't find the link for that treatment.

I have been playing with a new idea lately. Part of our problem is that by some reason our eyes get strained. My experience is that our eyes work as muscles and they get strained (tired). You also regularly end up doing a lot of stuff in front of a monitor that doesn't really needs for your eyes to totally focus on the screen. On those cases, I try to focus my eyes like 10-20cm past the monitor, even if only for a couple of seconds. That seems to give my eyes' muscles some kind of temporary relieve, and helps not allowing the migraines to build up so fast as they would otherwise. I'm at this point still not totally sure of how much of a help this actually is, but I'm positive that it really helps. PS: As I was writing this post, I was actually with my eyes focused past my screen. I already got used to do this trick as much as possible, and always focusing at a different distance, to try to spread out the muscle usage. You'll notice that even when looking past the monitor, you can still generally understand what's written on the display. As you get used to doing this, you'll learn how to focus optimally -- resting your eyes and still being able to read what's on your display.

I am 36 and I don't have any health issues other than this screen induced headaches.

Harrison Also I can see that more and more people joining the ledstrain forums and are starting threads about topics some of us already discussed very intensely long time ago without any conclusion. I understand that. I would suggest redirecting them to the original thread. Even if unresolved, multiple threads on identical topics help no-one. Harrison I'm just trying to find connections why we can "see" things others can't see. I've began working on a "survey" (similar to those annoying "marketing" surveys), perhaps it will be usable as a method to identify correlations. Unfortunately I am back using my IPC2 which uses dithering (my computer with nvidia is currently in RMA..) so I'm spending much less time on the computer. Once that is remedied, I plan on finishing it up and maybe then we can glean some information. I plan to make statistics and input data (at least mostly) public so some care will be needed for anonymity, etc.

Slacor (my computer with nvidia is currently in RMA..) What happened to it? 😐

__528491__ Thanks for your detailed information. First of all I have to say that it's not easy for me to explain this medical stuff in english, however I'm pretty sure that you guys will know what I mean. I've two major problems in my head/face/... One is burxism and as a result problems with my temporomandibular joint and strainend facial muscles around it. Those symptoms get much better with a retainer I've got for 2 years know. However the strainend facial muscles did not relax totally. So one theory is that the strainend muscles influence the eye muscles in a certain way. One possible explanation is that during night, I can't breath with my nose and cause I'm breathing through the mouth at night the lower jaw gets into a non optimal position and strains his narrow muscles. The other major problem is the heavy eyestrain. I've also a deviated septum and very narrow nostrils and a theory of the Neuro-ophthalmologist is that the lacrimal glands are not ventilated in the right way. Moreover it is a fact that my lacrimal glands produce too less tear fluid. Eye drops and special eye therapies onle help a little bit. In my case it's also a discussion for years if I should do a nasal septum surgery or not. Otorhinolaryngologists are discordant if this surgery is really necessary, however I decided for me that I'll do it even if there is only a little chance to palliate my problems. Just think about, that even if you suppose that you are at full health, it is possible that you don't notice things like bruxism or the fact that you are a mouth breather. Also the chronical inflammation of my tonsils wasn't recognized by experts till now, however it is high time to get them out. Moreover the high inflammation markers in my body couldn't be good for the eyes. Of course I think that we have some kind ouf "faster eyes" and maybe our eye muscles can react faster to flicker, but don't ignore other factors in your body which can influence the eye system in a bad way - even if experts say different things to you.

So I figured I'd chime in here. Draw whatever conclusions you want but I'll try to elaborate on the onset of symptoms as well as severity. I'm 41. I'm overweight. I have in the past couple years made some concerted efforts to lose weight and hit my target goal. I practice kenpo karate and will never reach second black if I don't lose like another 25lbs. so there's that. When I am more fit, I notice my eye problems less. Although that isn't a universal truth - some screens hurt NO MATTER WHAT. It's possible that my tolerance is higher for discomfort in general when I'm more fit. Or, it's possible that fitness brings with it less time spent in front of screens. I have high cholesterol, but it goes down with weight loss so once I reach my goal weight the numbers should be good for that also. No other abnormal blood work. I have mild anxiety. Martial arts helps. So does getting enough sleep. I have a fast heartbeat. Have had it since I was a kid. It's hereditary/congenital. And harmless. I have TMJ and Bruxism. However, I've worn a nightguard for TMJ - and had TMJ flareups - for years. And never had a problem with any screen of any kind before 2012. Maybe the very tail end of 2011. But I was treated for TMJ long before that. How severe my TMJ is bothering me doesn't seem to correlate at all with my eye issues. I suffer from allergies. Both seasonal and specific. I'm sensitive to sulfur compounds (found in natural gas exhaust) as well as molds and grass and tree pollen. Again, there seems NO correlation between allergy symptoms and eye problems. I have tinnitus. Inflammatory, not nerve damage. It's related to the TMJ. It also seems to not correlate with eye issues. I consume caffeine (a couple big cups of coffee a day) and alcohol (a drink or two a couple nights a week) but neither in excess and neither seems to correlate. I don't smoke, consume drugs, or even take very many over-the-counter medicines (although I used to be a bit of a vitamin junkie, I gave that up once the science started coming in on it). I see a chiropractor for neck/spine alignment issues (years of computer work combined with a midlife fascination for getting my ass kicked in the dojo). How well my spine is doing also doesn't seem to correlate. I do go through swings. In late 2012 and very early 2013 it was the worst. I had nights where my eyes were so strained I simply COULD NOT SEE. Parts of 2015 and 2016 were much better. Late 2016 has seen a return to form. Nothing in my life - fitness, activity level, illness/injury - really seems to correlate. I do wear progressive glasses. Beginning in 2015 these were needed. My prescription is roughly -5/+1.5, or -4.75 if wearing standard lenses. No astigmatism. In 2001-2002 I became dreadfully ill from food poisoning. Long story short I "starved" for about 8-12 weeks. During this period my tinnitus/inflammation flared up badly, as well as my vitreous layer in my eyes separating. This is a normal thing that happens to everyone, but usually not at the age of 26. Usually more around 40-45. The illness might have been a trigger, or it might be coincidental. Either way I recovered fully, and had no visual issues (other than floaters in the vitreous layer) for a decade. If anyone sees anything in here they'd like clarification on, or that they think might help, let me know.

Gurm Well, bruxism is a connection and I also guess that you have high inflammation markers in your blood. Thanks for your detailled answer - every story and tale of woe will lead us to an conclusion. At present I think that just looking at technical specs brings us to nowhere. Too manifold are the technical reasons for the eyestrain.

Interesting. I also grind my teeth at night.

Harrison I very well might have high inflammation markers. They didn't pop on my last bloodwork, but that was a while ago. I can certainly bring it up next time I go for a physical.

your health

KM

AGI Less than seconds???

The doctor I recently visited said it was unusual for symptoms to kick in within seconds after turning on problematic lights or displays. Nevertheless they were confident that prismatic lenses would help. The symptoms I described - eye strain, burning eyes, headaches - are typical for a convergence issue they said. Just not within seconds. I also mentioned my left eye usually hurts first and the location of the pain I described fitted their theory. I will report back in some days if the prismatic lense helps. It did not help the very next day. Usual symptoms within seconds. (Plus staying for many hours after stopping the exposure)

AGI

KM I will report back in some days if the prismatic lense helps.

Did you wear any type of spectacles before?
Were you also given eye exercises?
When you say doctor, do you mean an eye doctor or an optometrist? I was explained the latter is not a medical doctor except in the US?

KM

AGI Yes, I currently wear +0.5 diopters prescribed recently by normal eye doctors. They want to increase it to +2.0 in slow steps every few months. Any other doctor before said I don't need glasses. I admit I see sharp despite the farsight. Last week I was at my local university eye clinic and was diagnosed with a conversion issue. The head of department himself was attending. A week later I visited their orthoptic department and got 4 pdpt (prism diopters) applied later in form of a patch/foil on the right glass. Their head of department talked to me, too. I'm still waiting for the detailed written report.

AGI

KM Yes, I currently wear +0.5 diopters prescribed recently by normal eye doctors. They want to increase it to +2.0 in slow steps every few months.

Was this a plan to fight your symptoms at electronic devices?

KM

AGI Yes, like 2 months ago I once again wanted to know if there's something wrong on the eye level despite previous doctors always saying "you don't need glasses" and after having visited 3 neurologists and an alternative practitioner, all who had no idea either and had never heard of the problem. This time with very strong eye drops the eye doctors measured 2.0 dpt, but some days later with +2.0 test glasses I couldn't see sharp at all at a distance of 2 m and more. So their plan is to slowly let the eyes adapt to increasing diopters.
Until the sight is 100% corrected I can't be sure the cause of the eye strain is not the eyes. Which I always thought up until 2 months ago.

AGI

KM Thanks. Are not the drops normally put after that eye test with the table at a few meters? Or do you mean the test was repeated after the drops and then you needed 2.0 dpt to see sharp?
So now you have 2.0 dpt and prismatic lenses, or do the latter imply getting rid of the former?

KM

AGI Under the effect of the eye drops they measured 2.0 dpt. I'm not sure if that measurement was done right since the doctor spoke broken German. I think the farsight and the convergence issue are separate issues. Currently I wear +0.5 dpt on both eyes and 4 pdpt on the right eye.

AGI

Since this was the first time I was given vitamin drops for my eyes, I was checking on what they could potentially do. I bumped into this article

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/new-study-suggests-vitamin-d-deficiency-is-related-to-dry-eye-08-2015/#.XE55Fy-B3BI

From memory the only thing that I was told was eventually off in my blood exams a few times was vitamin D.

Does any of you have the two, low levels of vitamin D and dry eyes?

KM

AGI The last time I checked I had a little less D than average. But nothing major. I then took some supplements.
I always wake up with dry eyes when having looked at displays or certain room lighting the day before. The dryness doesn't last longer than some minutes.

AGI

The eyedrops I was given pretty immediately soothed the twitching of my eyelids and made looking at the display more comfortable. Happy but surprised/curious, I played around with Google Translate and Google. The product description says "This preparation of vitamin B12 improves muscle function related to eye focusing. It is usually used to treat eyestrain." The active ingredient is cyanocobalamin. I thought it were a drug, but according to WebMed "is a man-made form of vitamin B12 used to prevent and treat low blood levels of this vitamin".

degen

AGI What is the name of the eyedrop?

martin

http://clarkeeye.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Symptoms-of-Vertical-Heterophoria.pdf

Very similar goes for horizontal heterophoria.

AGI

martin Hi Martin, can you please remind me, is heterophoria what you have been diagnosed with? In case, by whom, a "classic" eye doctor or an optometrist?
Have you always had sight problems, especially when using electronic devices, or is a recent issue? Thanks!

AGI

degen What is the name of the eyedrop?

https://www.mimaki-family-japan.com/item/detail?item_prefix=TF&item_code=004205&item_branch=001

martin

This is a good article - https://www.aimu.us/2017/12/10/heterophoria-symptoms-causes-diagnosis-and-management/

It also mentions miotic drugs (eye drops) help to some degree, and explains why. I am more and more convinced that all of us here have some far than normal degree of heterophoria.

degen

@AGI Continuing discussion from the other thread.

The Sancoba eyedrops have regulatory approval in Japan to treat asthenopia. My product (Bausch + Lomb Vitamine B12 Chauvin) has a different indication in France. The only difference between the products as far as I can tell are the inactives. I ordered it online and yes it is a medicine. The Sancoba eyedrops are considered a medicine as well, but at least your doctor has indicated them for you.

martin

Id like to leave this here, good summary with multitude of options: https://green-club.eu/wp-content/uploads/CET-51114-Investigating-and-managing-heterophoria-.pdf

diop

martin Thanks for the info.

"If decompensation occurs in childhood, the child will develop a manifest strabismus, suppression will occur to overcome diplopia and binocular single vision will be lost." This is me.

I have had these issues all my life due to premature birth, and have alternating esotropia. I have had multiple surgeries to try to correct my squint however even within the last year when speaking to my surgeon, he stated that it could improve my eyes cosmetically, however binocular vision will not be possible, and there is always the risk of over correction, which would look even worse.

On top of this due to my premature birth my eyes are irregularly shaped, which will change how light enters and hits the retina. (Astigmatism?) Also pretty short sighted (approx -8 left eye -12 right eye).

Just saying as somebody who has always had these issues, and used all screens OK until >2012, it's not my eyesight that is causing the problem.

However I agree that everybody on this forum should get a thorough check-up with a specialist.

martin

diop Well its quite obviously both, otherwise everyone would have an issue when new tech was introduced. When someone figures out a tech solution, Ill be happy to pay them for it. I dont see that happening anytime soon and the eye therapy helps, so Im going that route. I want to get to a point where I dont see a difference in comfort, be it tech solution or health solution.

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