I am still using an iPhone 4. Out of five iPhone 4/4s I bought only two are usable. The three other ones triggered eye strain in just a few seconds. However, the iPhone is getting slower, and the screen size is not really what you use nowadays. Do you have a Smartphone with current technology that is perfectly usable throughout the day?

I use a Note 3 SM-N900W8 (purchased Oct 24th 2013, was having issues with PWM then, got a migraine from being in the store too long :() I never bothered to check for PWM as it was less of an issue in phone displays back then but I never had problems with the display. Recently checked with Canon T5i and it shows up as higher frequency than usual >300hz which is a safe zone normally. And I cannot detect PWM using pen test (insert S-Pen joke here) However Samsung phones made in 2014 and after have terrible PWM worse than this. Friend got a headache from trying the S5 in store, think later batches of the Galaxy S4 may be affected, etc.

I am iPhone 4s with iOS 7.1.2, and it's smooth enough because I don't usually use apps on it. (I surf the web on computer) I think iOS 6 is better on iPhone 4. :>

@"JTL"#p236 I hate Samsung mostly because of the screen. The same feeling as yours.

I've got a LG LGL34C for about a year now and haven't had any issues with it. Dunno if it's fast or not but it's usable... so that's good enough for me!

@"Slacor"#p251 Heh. I had a LG-C55 about four years ago running Android 2.2. Think was laggy as crap but it didn't use PWM, took 10 seconds to open the dialer, etc.

Did anyone try the BlackBerry Leap?

I use an iPhone 4s and I hate it :( It gives me instant eye strain + headaches. Its original OS (I don't remember which one it was) seemed a lot better than the new updated ones. I wish I could revert it back to how it was.. but oh well.

Yes, that is true. I had to downgrade my iPhone 4 to iOS 6 because on iOS 7.1.2 I got severe eye strain and headaches. I switched back and forth several times to be sure. I think there is a newer hack tool that allows you to downgrade iPad 2 and iPhone 4s to iOS 6.1.3. I read about it in reddit's jailbreak section. I believe it is called something like Odysseus. But I can not guarantee that it is safe to use and free of malware. I think iOS 5 was the original OS.

Also I might be able to go to a phone store soon with my fast shutter speed DSLR to test for flickering in newer smartphones. Also people on my family also own, alongside the Samsung's I mentioned. - LG Nexus 5 - iPhone 6s (I don't like iPhone's :P) will test those later.

I tried the BlackBerry Leap now. It is not the worst LED device I ever used, but it still starts to hurt a little after 1-2 minutes. At night the minimum brightness is a little too bright for me.

Usable Smartphones?

jasonpicard

I use a Samsung Galaxy S2. I have no issues with it. Although I keep it at full brightness and use a dimmer to turn the brightness down. I play games on it and watch movies and use the internet with no issues. I wanted to buy a phone that Laptopmedia had reviewed but now you guys have me worried their reviews can't be trusted. It was a Meizu M2 Note that according to them doesn't use PWM at all.

JTL

jasonpicard Hi Jason

I've been trying to get in contact with you before. We have lot's of information to share with you. I have a Macbook Pro 2015 (flicker free laptop) for example 😃

Link

JTL

jasonpicard Also you made those "LED/LCD flicker can cause migraine" videos a few years back. Good times.

babakkardan

jasonpicard Thanks for the info about the Meizu M2 Note. I looked at the laptopmedia review for the phone. Would you know at what percentage the PWM kicks in? Would you know of other reviews showing the M2 Note's PWM dimming? Thanking you.

ryans

jasonpicard Now that you're back Jason, what smartphone do you use now? Is it comfortable?

jasonpicard

JTL Yeah I kind of stopped using the computer so much because I was having so much trouble. I still don't have a good setup for using computers. I find my phone isn't powerful enough to do a lot of Internet use. I have 3 netbooks that I can't use🙂 They are all LED but I hook one up to my plasma TV it's just not ideal. I am running a program right now called PWM adjuster. I am trying it out on my Acer Aspire One netbook. I set it to run my PWM at 7350 HZ. It seems better but I can tell it is still bothering me. It's possible even though it's telling me the PWM is being changed nothing is actually happening. The program is supposed to work with Intel graphics cards. This computer is a GMA 3150 graphics card.

JTL

jasonpicard That is certainly possible. Intel drivers are quite buggy.

Try and build a desktop with nice AMD/nVidia graphics and external BenQ monitor?

laclean

Hi Jason.

With regards to display, why not connect the netbook/laptop to a "flicker free" display from benq or viewsonic ? i think they say they verified that in a german lab(TUV).

As for a phone, maybe you can find something to your liking in www.notebookcheck.net .They are German ,so maybe there's more chance that they don't mis-advertise, altough in the end we don't have a lot of choice , nobody does pwm reviews) They also said that the xiaomi redmi 3 doesn't use pwm, we have some post in our forums.

JTL

laclean Yeah. I'm looking into the LG V10.

reaganry

laclean i've had eye success with my alienware alpha (NVidia 7xx) + Dell ultrasharp U2414H with some overclocking. Also with my 2015 macbook air as a source.

i made the mistake of picking up a cheap iphone 4s though & now i'm back in sunspot zombieland. excited to try out the htc one..

optix

Hi all,

I'm searching for solutions for our LED / PWM / Blue light / Dithering / etc. problems that are causing eye strain, motion sickness, nausea and/or other discomfort ever since I've bought my first Macbook that had LED display in 2008.

During the years I somewhat managed to find products I can use without any issues, so here's my "setup":

Smartphones

What works for me:
I'm currently using HTC One M8 (the "correct" version!) and I can look at the screen for hours without any eye strain, motion sickness, nausea or general discomfort. I said "the correct version" as there seem to be two component suppliers HTC uses and while I can use my M8 normally, I can't look at my girlfriends' M8 for more than 5 minutes without discomfort. I can confirm the same for HTC One M9 - you just have to get a right version that doesn't cause problems. More details at XDA: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2705983

Among OLED/AMOLED smartphones, Samsung Galaxy S2 is safe to use for me, as is Samsung Galaxy Nexus (similar to S2 spec-wise, but with better, 720p display resolution). I can use both for hours w/o problems, the same goes for Samsung Note 2.

What doesn't:
I've essentially owned or extensively tested these smartphones that all caused either eye strain, motion sickness, nausea and/or general discomfort (some in less than 5 minutes, others in less than 30 minutes of use):

LED: all LG manufactured Nexuses, Nexus 6, Nexus 5x, Nexus 6p, LG G4, all iPhones since 5, Motorola G 2nd gen., LG V10 (played with it for 15 minutes, caused discomfort, but not nearly as bad as with other, older LED based LG smartphones).
AMOLED/OLED: Samsung Galaxy S3, S4, S5, S6 (incl. Edge), Note 3, Note 4. I also have here LG G Flex 2, which apparently doesn't use PWM and I can use it for about 15 minutes, but then discomfort begins. Getting Moto X 2014 for a test soon, as I've seen reports it doesn't cause problems.

Computers, monitors
I'm using Dell U3011, U2711 and U2410. All three are excellent monitors with CCFL backlight. I use them for at least 8-10 hours each day without any problems whatsoever. Haven't found LED-based monitor that I could use for more than 10 minutes without issues, though I haven't yet tried latest Benq "low blue light / eyes friendly" models.

That's about it for now, I will send updates once there's anything new to report.

Sunspark

optix Kray

Hi, I have a HTC One M8 here that I have because I used up a credit to take a gander at the current state of Android devices with. Did you guys ever look and see what panel you have that you say Super LCD3 is comfortable? I did unlock the bootloader on mine and rooted it. So I know from looking at the last.kmesg file that the panel is a Sharp with the Novatek 35595 controller. It has Marshmallow on it and frankly, I feel tired looking at it, it's also quite blue which is part of why I rooted it, so I could install cf lumen.

It is the "New Mode2" technology where the lcd stops being driven while it is being touched rather than being continuously driven which makes me suspicious that this is partly what is going on.

Kray

Sunspark optix

I didn't know that HTC uses different panels for the same phone. Lucky for me, all the HTC phones I have used so far (HTC One M7, HTC One Max and now HTC M9+ Supreme Camera edition) are all okay, I do not get eye strain using it at all.

I get eye strain from not just PWM, but also from certain graphics driver implementation, like Intel graphics and some phone's graphics. My current HTC M9+ SC Edition phone is on Lillipop, and I intend to keep it as it is, I do not want to take the chance of upgrading the software in case they made some changes to the graphics driver which might cause eye strain. Even blackberry Z10 can cause eye strain just from upgrading the OS. This is the kind of thing I want to avoid. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I have never rooted my phone before, so I am a bit hesitant to do it. Maybe I can experiment to root my old HTC One M7 phone (which I am not using anymore) just to see what kind of panel it is using.

babakkardan

optix hi, any other phones you have recently come across which are ready on the eyes? Have you tried any of the Sony xperia phones?

JTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjTp52NQU7o&lc=z12hxfoyko2ovj0ip04cihyjat2yvjh5lmk0k

Maybe flicker free

babakkardan

JTL

JTL Has anyone actually done a test on the Redmi Note 3 Pro to confirm it is PWM free?

JTL

ever since I've bought my first Macbook that had LED display in 2008.

That model did use aggressive PWM <250hz. Maybe try one of the safe Macbooks, 2010 or later, maybe AMD or nVidia graphics.

optix

Sunspark

My HTC One M8:
[2244112] m8_sharp_novatek_panel_on display_id =0xBC
[2246803] PANEL_ID_M8_SHARP_NT35595 Cmd
This display is non problematic.
My HTC One M7, which is also non problematic has this display:
[1588744] m7_init_display_panelid_940067
[1591236] SHARP_RENESAS FULL HD panel
[1708297] M7 sharp renesas cmd panel ID=0x940069
[2230407] m7_init_backlight: panel_id=0x940069
[2233042] PWM ic version A2

Cannot check with my girlfriend's M8, which is problematic, as it's still under warranty and she prefers not to unlock it (yet).

Sunspark

PS. If you want to do the same for your HTC, these are the 5 things you need. Be aware that unlocking the bootloader will factory erase your device, so obviously back up your files and stuff first. It's also a requirement if you want to have the ability to slap other roms on it at some point.

Unlocking the bootloader:
-HTC Drivers installed (if you installed HTC sync on windows PC, the drivers were included)
-Minimal ADB&Fastboot pack (you can get this from xda)
-Account with HTCDev website to get the bootloader unlock token

Rooting:
-TWRP 3.0 recovery (you can get this from team win)
-SuperSU (also needed for cf lumen)

JTL

Sunspark Interesting research. I myself am looking into if it's possible to change the PWM frequency of the Samsung AMOLED driver.

Sunspark

Kray Yeah, the M8 uses Sharp and LG LCDs with drivers from Novatek and Renesas. 6 combinations. If you want to try the process out on the M7, still gather together the 5 items. It is the same for all HTCs. Currently the M8 I have has Marshmallow on it but I was contemplating dropping it down to Cyanogenmod Kitkat just to see if there is any difference. If it is hardware then not much I can do. I'm not really an Android fan anyway so I'm not upset. Kitkat was the first version for the M8.

Also, Qualcomm makes Adreno 3xx/4xx display drivers you can download from their website and hot-flash with the TWRP recovery. I may very well try that before a ROM change. Why not? If I notice anything different, that would be nice as it would mean I would have a driver I could keep.

optix

Kray

I have similar symptoms to you and Gurm - that should help us pinpoint all of the causes sooner 😉

Anyway, like I've promised, I have an update.

I was able to borrow a Blackberry PRIV over the weekend and while the first impressions were positive (it has very nice AMOLED display and there was no eye strain for almost 30 minutes), I sadly started to feel "that discomfort" after about 30 mins of use. Like usually, changing picture settings (warmer/colder, intensity) and brightness didn't help. So unfortunately one more off the "does no harm" list for me...

Sunspark

optix Thanks for checking! What version of the OS are you on for the m8? Mine is M because L had a critical WiFi bug and I never tried K on it. Still haven't yet tried the Qualcomm drivers either.

APC75

Wow lot of information here so just going to quickly ask if anybody discovered any smartphones that don't use LED backlight at all in the screen?

JTL

APC75 All phone's with a backlight had some form of LED I believe. Even my mother's Samsung flip-phone that's almost as old as me and had a monochrome backlit screen 😛

*but the LED's might be different type from the one's in monitors, etc.

optix

APC75

All OLED/AMOLED phones don't use LED backlight. In fact, they don't have backlight at all, as each pixel lights up independently.

Sunspark

APC75 Yotaphone 2 has an e-ink panel on the other side of the device.

optix

Sunspark

My One M8 came with K, but now I'm still running L without problems.

A friend of mine that also has M8 recently upgraded to M and I can confirm that M as an OS doesn't cause me any problems.

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