Last Ditch Effort for Relief

bkdo

I'm starting this thread because I'm truly desperate for any kind of relief at this point, my flicker sensitivity has gotten so bad that I can barely stand to be under my overhead LED lights at home anymore. I'm trying to keep up at work, but spending every day on a problematic screen is seriously messing with my head. Even if I were to solve the computer problem, there's just so much flicker everywhere else. Whether it's my car's dashboard, Nintendo switch, iPad, TV, phone, etc, I'm feeling really hopeless right now. I'm getting married soon and the fact that this stupid issue is monopolizing my time is actually unbelievable to me.

Does anyone have any suggestions for things to try? At all? I'm at the point where I will literally try anything.

The only devices I have that I can use comfortably right now are:

iPhone 8+ (iOS 14.6)
iPad 7th Gen (iOS 14.4)
MacBook Pro Early 2015

Literally everything else I've tried causes the same eyestrain and migraine symptoms. The only slight lead I have right now is that I was talking to someone who dug into the iOS update files and told me "The iOS 14.7/14.8 update included a fix for a vulnerability on the CoreGraphics library. While doing that, they updated their JBIG2 code. which is responsible for image compression focused on halftones. I've found a few papers describing how halftones can be perceived as flickering if done wrong."

I don't know if this is helpful for us, but it's the only real lead I've got so far.

Aside from that, does anyone have any recommendations on what to do here? I'm at the end of my rope here. I've got some flicker-free lights coming, and I'm going to buy a used late 2015 iMac in hopes that it'll be okay for my eyes, but I've got nothing else. Does anyone have any medication recommendations or anything like that?

Sorry for the wall of text ramble, I'm truly at my limit here.

ryans

Sorry it is so bad. I worry about losing my job with this damn condition with the Windows 22H2 update.

bkdo that I can barely stand to be under my overhead LED lights at home anymore

Do these flicker if you take a slow motion video? If so that could be making your situation much worse. A couple of minutes under these and my eyes are burnt out.

bkdo Does anyone have any suggestions for things to try? At all?

I haven't tried it, but Dr. Barry Tannen writes about success with a tint called Omega here and fluorescent lights.

bkdo and I'm going to buy a used late 2015 iMac

If it's an Intel Mac, I'd try @NewDwarf commands here to disable dithering.

bkdo Does anyone have any medication recommendations or anything like that?

Some neurologists recommend these supplements for migraines.

logixoul

bkdo Try Onyx Boox Mira monitor. I'm currently using it and it feels like reading on paper. (so, not problem-free, as I have trouble reading from paper already too). But it's lightyears ahead of every other tech I've tried.

Allekss

bkdo i think the eye/head/neck pain we get are from LED backlight panels. I suffer myself from screen eye pain almost 7 years. Went to different doctors etc… Everyone says I'm 100% healthy… so at this point i think the LED panels ( the way they iluminate the screen) is triggering our symptoms and our eye muscles / brain don't like this….

That's my personal opinion and i truly believe that's the cause !!!

JTL

bkdo The only slight lead I have right now is that I was talking to someone who dug into the iOS update files and told me "The iOS 14.7/14.8 update included a fix for a vulnerability on the CoreGraphics library. While doing that, they updated their JBIG2 code. which is responsible for image compression focused on halftones. I've found a few papers describing how halftones can be perceived as flickering if done wrong."

I don't believe JBIG2 is used anywhere outside of file formats, and thus wouldn't impact display quality, so any change that may cause eyestrain is merely a coincidence that occurred around the same time.

Doesn't exactly help, just stating what I do know.

bkdo

ryans

ryans Do these flicker if you take a slow motion video? If so that could be making your situation much worse. A couple of minutes under these and my eyes are burnt out.

They do. It's awful, and it seems like every store and building out there uses these horrible flickering lights.

ryans I haven't tried it, but Dr. Barry Tannen writes about success with a tint called Omega here and fluorescent lights.

Thanks for the recommendation, I went ahead and ordered the Omega tinted clip-ons. I'll report back how they work.

ryans Some neurologists recommend these supplements for migraines.

I've been taking Magnesium, no luck yet though. Has anyone seen benefits with the supplements?

karut

Yeah, I have pretty severe misalignments. I recently had an extensive exam with a Debby Feinberg trained BVD specialist and got new prism lenses, but I never really noticed any solid improvements with them. Also, they just seem to hurt my eyes now. Going back soon to be re-examined, hopefully with better results.

ensete

I'm not 100% sure, but I know that PWM flicker + flickering lights destroy my eyes, so it's at least a part of the problem. I don't know for sure why non-PWM screens like the iPhone 11 or MacBook Air hurt so much though.

Deornoth

That's actually how I discovered my BVD problem - I patched my right eye and noticed improvements in flicker tolerance. It didn't solve the problem by any means though, so it's not sustainable for me unfortunately.

Which eye care monitor in specific has worked for you? And the frustrating thing is that even if I find a truly flicker free monitor, it seems that the device I plug in still has its own flicker (My MacBook Air, for example).

logixoul

Are you able to use macOS or windows on the Onyx Boox Mira?

Allekss

It seems that way. But I've also had devices that worked fine suddenly become unusable with software updates, so that's also a component, unfortunately.

JTL

Weird, I guess it must have been a coincidence. I'll reach out and see if he's found anything else related to iOS.

daniel_mate

ryans I haven't tried it, but Dr. Barry Tannen writes about success with a tint called Omega here and fluorescent lights.

That is a very similar video to this one Light & Sound Sensitivity | Post-Concussion Syndrome Series

I have not tried Omega (blue) tint, I did try the glasses (green) from my link tho, but did not help

….I guess one test to try out based on these videos is to block the side vision.

Just realized the video is from chiropractor and not optometrist and he knows the trick with monitor flicker (bump brightness to max to increase flicker, add overlay to block the brightness) 🙂

karut

Have you been tested for Binocular Vision Dysfunction?

ensete

Are you sure it's flicker? I always thought flickering and dithering was a red herring

squidward_eyes_93

ensete Interesting. Why are flickering and dithering possibly red herrings? Thanks!

Deornoth

right there with you. Definitely try the eye patching trick, it really seems to help. There are other threads here that go into detail about it but basically it seems like if one eye is weaker than the other it makes a person super sensitive to flicker. Covering the better eye and just using one seems to be a big relief to many. And it can get better over time as the weaker eye is forced to get stronger. Worth a shot.

Other than that, keep searching out devices without flicker - the LG eye care monitors seem to be good, I bought one recently and its easy on the eyes. ie.. No pwm, no dithering. I still haven't found a recent tv thats good but am trying another this week.

ryans

Deornoth , no dithering.

Worth nothing that the monitor itself may not use FRC, but whatever graphics card is plugged in, may be providing its own dithering.

ryans

bkdo They do. It's awful, and it seems like every store and building out there uses these horrible flickering lights.

The Waveform lights have been confirmed by members here to be flicker free. I never tried them. Sitting under flickering lights all day has got to make computer tolerance worse.

logixoul

bkdo Are you able to use macOS or windows on the Onyx Boox Mira?

Yes, it's just a monitor that you connect to your computer. I run Windows 10.

I should say that I do already get some eyestrain from the Mira, but it's still much less that with other screens.

karut

bkdo

Any updates? Did you do another examination with your BVD specialist?

jen

ryans Update on Waveform lights (2700K and 3000K Centric Home)- they’re still ok for me if the bulbs are new, but they become highly toxic by flickering more over time. - I decided to make a longer response a new thread:
[https://ledstrain.org/d/2412-measuring-led-flicker-correlation-with-health-symptoms]

squidward_eyes_93

I’m on a small team working on a project to make eye strain free computer tablets and curious to hear more stories and suggestions for what could help.

We also have eye strain free computer tablets for demo and beta testing. It’s reflective LCD display, it’s fast but also very easy on the eyes.

Feel free to drop me a line at [tiffany@jangleinc.com](mailto:tiffany@jangleinc.com)

I have severe computer vision syndrome, very debilitating, and still coping. What has helped my eyes so far:
1. sun light, outdoorsy activities 2. shield my eyes from LED screens with reflective display screens whenever possible 3. adding prisms in my glasses.

I am reading your story, and I think our conditions are probably a bit different than mine, but your experiences help me understand mine a bit more. Perhaps the flickering of most screens must have been the culprit of how I got here.

AGI

squidward_eyes_93 3. adding prisms in my glasses.

What kind of prisms and for what condition, if you don't mind me asking? Do you use prismatic lenses all the time, including for reading on paper?

Will definitely drop line about the display thing! Thanks!

AGI

bkdo Blue tint and FL-41 didn't help. Avulux are probably the only glasses I would buy out of what I tested, but more to mitigate very bright overhead lighting than device-induced eyestrain.

I haven't checked CBD oil (yet). Maybe you can give it a go if it's available in your country.

squidward_eyes_93

AGI

Hello! 🙂 I use prism for my convergence insufficiency which most definitely contributed to my eye strain; though I don't think it's the only reason. I suspect that the LED light itself is also messing up some parts of my eyes, causing nausea. I also have an autoimmune problem that may have make my eye muscles more prone to fatigue and dry eyes probably. I use prisms for reading and paper as well, because I only use one pair of glasses. I'm not familiar with the benefits of having multiple pairs of glasses, but perhaps that is also another strategy. My eyes already have a hard time adapting to new prescriptions, so i am guessing sticking to one pair of glasses is probably more right for me. I am noticed lots of improvement with my eyes recently after switching almost completely to reflective screens. I suspect it's because the reflective screens shield my eyes from harmful LED rays, finally giving them some time to bounce back. (I suspect this is why prism glasses didn't help me because my eye conditions were severe initially, so I couldn't feel the improvement from prism alone, but as my eyes improve through other means, the prism glasses later did seem to help, because I was less sick)I'm not cured yet but much better. Still have a long way to go, especially because my eyes can change so much in a short spam of time, so I need to keep checking my prescriptions otherwise the prism glasses actually make me feel dizzy because they may not be the right fit as my eyes change. 🙂 thank you so much for your interest. And thank you so much for sharing your story. Vision therapy is also on the horizon hopefully.

AGI

squidward_eyes_93 You should definitely give vision therapy a go. You may get rid of the prisms. See an orthoptist or a behavioral optometrist 🙂 Finding a fix for your eyestrain may not be straightforward, though. As you said, heterophoria may not be the only cause of our problems.