Hello Everyone, I posted this as a reply to another thread, and think it is worth posting as its own topic: I have recently started experimenting with something new and have been obtaining very interesting results. The method is to hold a medium sized rock in your hand while using the device, or afterwards after the appearance of symptoms. My speculation is that those of us who have this problem do not have sufficient connection with the earth. There are negative energies that are emitted by these devices which we do not sufficiently understand, and which are probably not sufficiently measurable with the means currently available to us. The connection with the earth, or grounding to the earth, serves to flush out a certain amount of these energies. For those of us in whom this natural connection to the earth is lacking to a sufficient degree for whatever reason, the energies are not flushed out and thus give rise to the various and variegated symptoms that we all report. I speculate that the reason no one has been able to find a root cause or causes for this problem on this forum over its 10 plus years of existence is that we are looking in the wrong place, and because this root cause is not sufficiently measurable or materially ascertainable at the present time. Holding a rock appears to help with this grounding, this connection to the earth. I have only began experimenting with this yesterday. The results so far: holding a medium-sized rock after a mildish but definitely noticeable trigger (looking briefly a few times at my Samsung tablet screen, which if I'm not very careful causes me terrible symptoms) resulted in the disappearance of the symptoms after a short time. Holding the same rock while reading text continuously for some time on my laptop screen lessened the symptoms compared to what they would usually be, but mild symptoms appeared nonetheless. After then looking away from the screen and continuing to hold the rock, the symptoms disappeared after a relatively short time. Note that the size of the rock I have been using is roughly that of a tennis ball, and is somewhat heavy to hold in the hand (but not uncomfortably so). I'm sure many people are going to find this method strange, and inexplicable within the framework of the current predominant positivist, scientistic worldview. If you would like to give it a go and, together with me, give this a trial run, I would be very interested to hear your results.

@"daniels"#p38894 It is legitimate view and I am glad you did mention it as grounding is part of an issue I believe. And to be absolutely honest my first ever weird symptom was feeling ungrounded when using electronics. On another hand there are so many other factors to consider like energy of a location, air pleasure, humidity, social context, stress etc. Also with this point of view we could think of electronics influence nervous system and block some of the energies, chacras or whatever, which suppose to have all energetic fields aligned with nature or with the earth.

Sorry but this is pseudoscience nonsense

@"bluetail"#p38899 Not per se, but if you consider it broadly from third perspective looking down on a person - various triggers initially cause various reactions as perceived by the person - let it be ungrounding, or other feelings categorized as such. This however does not imply that cause is - being ungrounded, which can mean a lot - e.g. hypersensitive person reactive to its environment in various ways, literally getting exposure to electrical fields, psychological / emotional state of mind, etc. Lets be open minded here, common subjective (unscientific) symptoms may allow us to cluster the causes, since it is unlikely that most people here have the same cause for the shared symptoms. And eye strain could be a caused by many things alone such as anxiety disorders, depression disorders, eye problems, various stressors in relation to not so perfect hardware we all are using etc.

@"Tuck"#p38900 See my post below for an actual example related to this + more specific explanation. I kinda think they're on to something with the general idea of touch affecting vision, but IMO are using a too niche/specific concept to explain it. What I disagree with to the original poster is that it will "ONLY" work with a specifically organic object like a rock and of course I'm skeptical about the earth thing, but I still had a pretty similar experience a few years ago: > > **>[daniels](https://ledstrain.org/d/1603-sea-salt-externally-applied-the-best-thing-ive-found-so-far/25)** Holding a rock appears to help with this grounding, this connection to the earth. I have only begun experimenting with this today. > > LOL I used to do this back when I was stuck with a terrible mini-LED MBP. I had to hold something in my other hand to be able to even barely tolerate that screen > > (it didn't matter if it was organic, just smooth, I could hold a USB mouse made from smooth plastic in my pocket and get the same effect. Of course I used a polished stone sometimes too. Interested to know if it keeps working for you even with non-natural objects as long as they're smooth) > > What you're touching seems to directly affect the ways your eyes process things somehow. > > Sometimes it's the opposite -- I've noticed that on all "bad laptop screens" when I press ctrl or shift repeatedly with my left pinky, the screen will go in and out of focus constantly. On some bad screens I have to do this to tolerate reading, but on others doing this actually causes some sharp eyestrain. > > In that case its probably my eyes trying to watch my finger in my peripheral vision, moving slightly, and whatever weird stuff the screen is doing is getting processed in a slightly different way. > > (a similar one is that I can see LCD inversion and temporal dithering whenever I move my head, but not when I'm still) > > **However,** on my "actually good" (low-to-no strain) laptop screens, that effect **doesn't happen at all** lol, I can mash a key and the screen 95% of the time text will stay just as crisp and the strain level doesn't change. (Although, I do notice the very corners of my vision outside of the screen slightly fading while doing this…)

> @"Donux"#p38902 And eye strain could be a caused by many things alone such as anxiety disorders, depression disorders, eye problems, various stress Not necessarily. I think the reason 50%+ of us are even here is that we already checked our eyes (and probably were told they were actually either "fine" or even "above average"), multiple doctors, checked other factors like mood, diet, sleep, and trying to exercise more and discovered that the screen issues (and by extension, their longer-lasting effect on the way you process vision even in the real world) were ***entirely*** separate. Possibly even tried multiple types of vision therapy (like I did) and **nothing**, and what FINALLY changed anything significant about the "mystery vision issues" was *switching the screen.* When I'm on a ***truly*** good screen (not just a tolerable one), it literally doesn't matter how I feel, how much sleep, how much stress, I can still look at it and read it fine pretty much no matter what. (However, how I feel can affect how bad a bad screen is — but even on days I felt otherwise amazing back then, I still could not tolerate my mini-LED Macbook Pro for more than 15 minutes.) --- Also, for me, I've noticed that so many (many but not all, of course) of the "issues I have processing vision in the real world" and general fatigue + constant tiredness I was dealing with actually **go away** after I use a *truly* good LCD, and remain fine until I use a bad screen, so screens have a **significant** "trailing effect that basically retrains your brain" that extends after you use them, but interestingly can also be "overwritten" pretty quickly by using a good screen. (The one exception is **non-backlit** like e-ink, which "takes on the general profile" of the last screen I used before it but with a mild-to-moderate improvement. Back when I ***only*** used bad screens, I still had fatigue reading on e-ink *or even paper*. Some "vision issues" I used to think "weren't screen related" — such as eyes wanting to close when standing still — remained afterwards. But when I FINALLY found a ***good*** ***backlit LCD***, I realized just a day or two on it **"retrains/resets my vision"** and I can see soooo well in real life after using it, and e-ink/paper starts feeling way more readable too)

> @"daniels"#p38894 **There are negative energies that are emitted** What specifically did you use to identify and measure "negative energies?" Be very specific so everyone can replicate your "negative energies" detector experiment.

> @"Donux"#p38902 Not per se, but if you consider it broadly from third perspective OP literally wants you to hold rocks to cure "negative energies."

Holding a rock won't do anything for me, but if it helps you then you should do it. For me, I want to try putting a grounding strap on my foot and plugging it into a power outlet and see how sleeping goes. I'll get around to it.

Are you connected to the ground or are you just holding the rock? I think you'd need to be barefoot on the ground for it to work (or using a grounding pad). I have a grounding theory unrelated to eye strain - I have a major issue with dairy (causes joint pain) but on vacation I always went to an ice cream place with my kids so I go anyway, consequences be damned. We spent the day at the beach and I got a huge ice cream, and was fine. I got nachos the next day, ice cream again and nachos the next day... felt completely fine the entire time. Came home and thought my dairy issue was gone, had a gluten free pizza with real cheese and bam, all my joints swelled up like arthritis. I spent 8+ hours on the beach/ocean and was totally fine with dairy repeatedly, then spent none grounded and was in pain after one meal. Could be something else but I've been wondering if grounding had something to do with it. From what I've read about it, it helps with inflammation which is really the issue at play here.

Grounding to the earth: does this help you too?

Donux

qb74 Quantum mechanics would support daniels idea. But not sure if we are going into a deep end here 🙂 Otherwise I might open that wine bottle right now to smooth it out a bit to avoid brain overload 🙂

moonpie

Donux Ensete, there is a place in that scientifically measure your Aura.

"Aura" and "negative energies" is bunk and you should get a refund.

Donux

moonpie Well, don't be silly. Human body radiates heat and has weak EMF field around it. And we could go into various vibrations, frequencies that each object has. Interacting with these objects with result in some sort of vibrational equilibrium. Of we are reaching an edge of science here, but stating that this has no grounds is not true either. However coming back to eye strain issues, I think it is important to evaluate human experience as we evaluating technology and human interaction. This is not siloed technology issue, meaning solving let say pwm flicker on some devices, will not solve all problems for those who are experiencing eye strain, headache and related symptoms.

moonpie

Donux Well, don't be silly.

Silly is going to a place to have a charlatan "scientifically measure your Aura."

Donux

moonpie I have been introduced by this I remember in London by Oxford graduate. This is research paper, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/379986613_The_aura_of_the_human_body_and_methods_for_its_measurement_and_visualization

And there is someone who produce Aura photographs for people too.

moonpie

Donux Silly is believing that is a "research paper" and not a rambling blog post.

languidicity

Eye strain of the type being talked about in this forum is an inflammatory reaction to, or a result of muscle tension from, certain types of light. Take away the flickering, pulsing light and images that appear still to the naked eye but are subliminally moving and voila; no more eye strain or related symptoms. Or perhaps somehow nullify the inflammatory response or muscle tension for the same result.
Given the increasing prevalence globally of such symptom triggering light for those susceptible to it the second of those solutions seems, to me at least, to be the one that should be focused on, if you’ll pardon the pun.

This blather about rocks and auras is mildly amusing, but such pseudoscientific nonsense has no place here.

daniels

wlmsn "I spent 8+ hours on the beach/ocean and was totally fine with dairy repeatedly, then spent none grounded and was in pain after one meal."

This is fascinating, thank you for sharing!

daniels

Donux "But the very first ever symptom I had was - feeling ungrounded. Walking bare foot on the sand near the beach - always helped."

Very interesting!

daniels

ensete I don't know what you mean by "positivist scientist worldview" but this is basic electrical knowledge. If you want to ACTUALLY ground yourself, you can touch the metal screw of a light switch cover. That screws into the yoke of the light switch which provides a path to ground. This is why you can get a shock touching alight switch on a cold dry day.

Different concept of grounding. The confusion is certainly understandable.

daniels

Thank you everyone for your replies. The tenor of many of them I had been expecting, and that's OK. I think an epistemological discussion, which would otherwise be interesting and fruitful, would lead us too far astray here. Though I've presented my speculation, my main interest at the moment is empirical, in the sort of direct experiences that wlmsn and Donux have shared, for example.

I understand that not everyone is going to want to try this, but for those with an open spirit of curiosity -- and for those with an awareness that no approaches explored in the over 10 (?) years of existence of his forum (many of whose members are very smart people) has shown any real promise -- would you like to give this a try and report your findings?

There is nothing to lose: the worst that could happen is that you might drop the rock onto your toe (for which possibility I entirely waive responsibility).

Even if my speculations and proposal might not seem "scientific" in the widely accepted sense, it would be wonderful to have a few more "data points."

I should mention once again that the size of the rock does seem to play a role, and that it should be sufficiently large (and held for a certain amount of time). And it seems to work best with both feet flat on the ground, whether sitting or standing.

Looking forward to hearing your experiences!

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

daniels Thank you everyone for your replies. The tenor of many of them I had been expecting, and that's OK. I think an epistemological discussion, which would otherwise be interesting and fruitful, would lead us too far astray here. Though I've presented my speculation, my main interest at the moment is empirical, in the sort of direct experiences that wlmsn and Donux have shared, for example.

The thing is though, it's not necessary after you find good screens

As I mentioned ago, I do see some merit in the "holding an object" idea (but for a different reason, due to the more direct connection of touch affecting eye movement) when you're still stuck with a bad screen, since I did actually end up doing that when I was stuck with a terrible 14" MBP

It's a workaround

But once I found good screens, the screen simply works (and I can use it no matter how I'm feeling or what I'm doing)

The fact you have to mess with sense of touch to "force" the screen to focus more often, points to a problem with the screen (since it's not providing an image that's consistently easy to focus)

-- not really a problem with how you feel or what your energy is etc

Honestly even EMF stuff sometimes discussed here, I don't believe that's the problem for majority of people here (AKA, I don't think it's the area most worth looking into for a solution)

In that case I don't want to discount the fact that someone might actually have a problem with that which I don't experience, but for me, and IMO most on the forum, the screen is the main factor

I have multiple wifi routers at my place, use many bluetooth devices daily, but if I'm using a safe screen like ePaper I feel amazing (despite still being in the exact same environment)

It really just doesn't matter for me, everything hinges on the screen. The headaches/"unstable feeling" I only have when I'm looking at a bad screen

moonpie

daniels Though I've presented my speculation, my main interest at the moment is empirical,

Great. What specifically did you use to identify and measure "negative energies?"

daniels it would be wonderful to have a few more "data points."

Once you share how you measure "negative energies" everyone can provide empirical data about which "rocks" work best.

Looking forward to hearing how to construct or purchase this device you have.

ensete

Donux ensete Ensete, there is a place in that scientifically measure your Aura. I have learned a lot from one dude who is developing EMF protecting clothing in cooperation with universities. Apparently, EMF protecting clothing has unexpected negative consequence, it blocks EMFs from outside world, but it also blocks human body EMF too. We are one with our environment, and we are not some sort of walking vacuums. But to get into this mindset, one would really need to spend more time in nature and to understand how normal state fells like. So generally there is more than it meets the eye or whatever that saying is.

I'm not talking about "Aura"s or EMF protective clothing (whatever that is). I am talking about the basic properties of electrical circuits. A rock does not provide a path to ground. If you don't believe me go get a multi meter, set it to DC volts, touch the positive probe to the positive end of a battery, and the negative probe to a rock. You won't get a reading because a rock is not a pathway to ground to complete a circuit. The rest of your mumbo jumbo is just new wave spiritual nonsense.

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