My post has been censored

daniels

I posted this thread last week, which has generated a certain amount of discussion:

https://ledstrain.org/d/3017-grounding-to-the-earth-does-this-help-you-too

Yesterday it was censored: that is to say, it was moved to the “offtopic” area, which means that it no longer appears on the list of topics that come up on the LEDStrain main page. My guess is that the “offtopic” area serves to parry any charges of censorship, because the thread is not in fact deleted; but effectively, it is censorship, as the thread can no longer be seen and found.

As anyone who reads the original post can see, it is utterly “on topic”: that is, it presents a speculation about the possible cause of our problem as well as a possible solution (or at least a possibly fruitful basis for experimentation).

I expect that it was censored because this speculation and suggestion for experimentation fall outside the currently accepted scientific world view (“scientific” in the narrow sense, I would add personally). I fully understand that some people may be opposed to such an approach, and they are of course most welcome to voice their opposition. But I believe that censorship is a highly inappropriate action, for solutions may come from outside the commonly accepted way of thinking, and if we block a priori ideas that are, to use the modern expression, “outside the box,” we are closing ourselves to possible solutions.

I would mention again that I believe this forum has been in existence for over a decade, and that no truly promising approaches have been found thus far. In this context, and also in view of the suffering that we all experience in our lives due to this problem, excluding possibly “unconventional” ideas that might help is a very unwise approach.

I would also add that lines of thinking, experimentation, and experience that fall outside the currently predominant materialistic world view are really not unusual at all in our time, and by far not all people who think along these lines are fools.

I believe this forum should be a space for free discussion in which censorship has no place.

Donux

daniels This is went into spirituality a bit too much 🙂 But I would not take it personally, because if you would try to be solution minded, you would understand that thread would not lead us anywhere 🙂

beyondthelight

daniels would mention again that I believe this forum has been in existence for over a decade, and that no truly promising approaches have been found thus far.

Agree with you but only half, while is true that 80% of the activity to find a solution is more about searching and trying rather than finding, there are few exemptions, one being the incandescent monitor solution, which was here in this forum where it first was widely known about still relatively recently, and is a solution.

Seagull Many forum members have found eye patching to be an effective treatment and even a cure

Why have one eye when you can have 3 with an incandescent backlit display?

Seagull

Moderation of public discourse is important to keep it to a theme and produce the desired outcome. Whilst this forum is generally open to out of the box thinking, but what you posted was clearly a bit too far and resulting in ridicule rather than anything useful.

"I would mention again that I believe this forum has been in existence for over a decade, and that no truly promising approaches have been found thus far"

This is frankly quite insulting. Many forum members have found eye patching to be an effective treatment and even a cure. I myself have been treating my screen issues with diet and am nearly ready to write my own celebratory post. We have shared software solutions which have provided relief. We have provided support to those who through themselves alone in this affliction. It is a force for good.

You can either keep your discussions more grounded, or take your woo woo somewhere else.

Rataplan

Holding a rock in your hand to avoid symptoms, I almost fell from my chair from laughing. This rubbish doesn't belong here.

karut

Speaking as a (clinical) psychologist: I would suggest to view this post in a framework of autonomic nervous system regulation/polyvagal theory/brain retraining/hypnotherapy.

Holding a rock can certainly have a calming/grounding effect, leading to a more parasympathetic nervous system state that reduces muscle tension (around the eyes and neck), strengthening the vagus nerve and thus relieving eyestrain. There are other posts on Reddit and here that report success with work on neck muscle tension and the autonomic nervous system.

Slacor

Hello daniels,

You are correct in that it was moved to the off topic area. And I will begin with an apology. In the role of running this forum as an admin, I've let you down. Your post was moved to off topic, without a clear reason why listed in the guidelines. So, I apologize to you for that.

It may feel like I'm targeting or censoring you, as your post specifically is being moved, so I will explain a little.

For some time now (a few years), I've been pondering the relevancy of generalized advice.
For example, meditation. Mediation has many benefits, including destressing the body, which would help solve LEDStrain.
Or, nutrition. Get a good overall well rounded nutritional profile and this has a undeniable positive impact on your body, which should reduce the impact of ledstrain.

The problem with these approaches is they are a general solution to a specific, novel problem.
LEDStrain has nothing to do with general stress, or using computers too much, or anything of that nature. There is a specific problem with the technology behind LED lights, or similar technology, that cause this specific problem. This problem impacts a small subsection of people, who wish to identify a way to address this specific issue.

That is the intent of this forum, to find solutions to a specific problem.

After thinking about this, I am going to be making the following discretionary call:

All generalized health advice, including grounding or nutrition, is off topic.

This new position will be updated in the community guidelines soon.

I want to express however, that some of this advice is good advice, generalized health or spiritual advice is very beneficial to those that need to hear it, and I welcome it in a different location that may focus on it. Perhaps even a forum dedicated to a more naturopathic approach to ledstrain. I may be wrong on this and a forum dedicated to that finds the solution.
But for this forum, the focus must be on targeted approaches to a specific problem.

reaganry

here's the thing though. it's going to have to be a generalized health/medical etc solution to be useful.. because there's no scenario in which we can control all the screens and lights we interact with.

languidicity

reaganry

Exactly. I have started a new job this past week and have been experiencing some symptoms including dry eyes, muscle tension and headaches. None of it too severe and no crippling migraines thus far but this is all due to being in an environment where I have zero control over the lighting or the choice of screens, etc. The lighting throughout the building seems somewhat harsh and it is also full of screens. Software workarounds and swapping out hardware won't help me here.
Of course I could quit this new job and try to find something else but A) I cannot afford to, and B) I would in all likelihood encounter the same problem elsewhere.

There are two key questions for me regarding this whole eye strain issue that if answered would perhaps lead to a solution;

Why have I started suffering from these issues only in the past 8 years or so? I was exposed to flickering lighting before then so what changed?
Why doesn't everyone exposed to such flickering light experience symptoms? Most people I know are fine with staring at flickering OLED phones all day, laptops and monitors with PWM and dithering, flickering TV's and LED light bulbs. Yes, some people will suffer from 'mysterious' eye issues and headaches and such like and not attribute it to this issue as they aren't aware of it, but lets never lose sight (sorry!) of the fact that we are the minority and either share a common causal physiological trait or condition or there is more than one such trait or condition leading to the same outcomes.

Remember, the eye strain and related issues are the symptoms. And you don't treat the symptoms.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

languidicity Why have I started suffering from these issues only in the past 8 years or so? I was exposed to flickering lighting before then so what changed?

Using bad screens seem to cause or increase the "more general" flicker sensitivity.

Although, arguably, some desktop monitors have had issues (to a lesser extent) for a much longer time -- have found really strange image processing methods even in 2005-era monitor datasheets…

For portable & embedded devices (which is most screens I see day-to-day), the "really bad" screen issues definitely only started at a "super widespread scale" about a decade ago.

(One exception: Apple laptops have had issues for longer, e.g. 2008 MBP causes moderate strain. Hard to explain in this post though. TLDR MacBook screens are historically built more like desktop monitors, instead of like "embedded device screens". I have no issues with "2008-era portable devices" from other companies)

When I only use "actually good" LCDs -- like a super old (Windows) laptop TN or the original Nintendo DS -- for a few days, I notice that my sensitivity to "non-screen" lights like fluorescent and LED bulbs decreases by a LOT.

What makes a "good screen" doesn't seem to entirely relate to flicker, since there are a few screens that are great for me -- and even reduce my lightbulb flicker sensitivity -- but actually do have some inversion and (subtle, mild) PWM.

So IMO, it's mainly something else about the "bad screens" that can retrain our vision in harmful ways. I'm pretty sure it's related to how they render colors/contrast -- in a way that with extended use, it retrains the eyes to move differently, worse, less "smoothly" in the real world too.

(Of course, incandescent and halogen are still clearly higher quality + always more comfy, but I'm wayyyy more tolerant and less "immediately tired" under "invisibly flickering" lightbulbs if I've only been using good screens.)

Note that unlike some here, I don't have any issues with "visibly flickering strobe lights" e.g. at concerts, even back when I used bad screens. It's only "invislble flicker" that affects me (and can be improved by using better screens)

Note that for me, e-ink kind of "takes on the general profile" of the last LCD I've used and doesn't actually "retrain my vision" like LCDs do. So in order to "fully revert" the negative effects of a bad LCD/OLED, I actually have to find and use a truly good LCD -- using e-ink doesn't "reset things" in my case.

languidicity Why doesn't everyone exposed to such flickering light experience symptoms?

It seems like having astigmatism/eye misalignment seems like a very common theme here, including me and also one other person (family relative) I recently met IRL that has very similar screen symptoms

moonpie

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs It seems like having astigmatism/eye misalignment seems like a very common theme here, including me and also one other person (family relative) I recently met IRL that has very similar screen symptoms

I would echo the astigmatism angle but also add Eastern European, Asian, and Russian descent. The Russians were talking about and testing for PWM back in the Samsung S1/S2 and Note 1/Note 2 days.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

beyondthelight Why have one eye when you can have 3 with an incandescent backlit display?

Feeling the same with my portable solution: AUO 303E TN laptop panel (uniquely better than all "traditional" external monitors I've ever used, including ancient CCFL ones and flicker-free ones, even though it's WLED) + installed in ThinkPad T480 + Basic Display driver.

I feel like I can see things that others can't. Information density💙💙💙💙💙

(I def want to try spectrumview at some point but I prefer laptop ergonomics + my laptop solution has been serving me great and I'm at the point where I can actually tell "it will stay that way". Also really interested in knowing the exact LCD panel/brand that was sourced for spectrumview and whether it's consistent across multiple spectrumview units)

I wonder if I could rig up some kind of custom portable-sized incandescent monitor with AUO 303E TN + incandescent backlight + some eDP controller board with least possible post-processing

beyondthelight

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Can definitely relate regarding the niceness of laptop ergonomics, I think a custom made incandescent backlit AUO303E display can be made, and if not maybe some other brand with similar size/resolution specs. Shoot them a message, Im sure it can be done, or at least tried.