With the new election results, maybe incandescent will come back. :)

Sunspark

Trump is someone on the record as not liking LED lights because he thinks they mess with the color of his makeup.

Never know, he might get rid of the regulations banning incandescents. TBD!

Larkenn

Sunspark I actually thought of this too. A reversal of Bidens lightbulb ban. No real proper research was ever done on the safety of LEDs as the only lighting source. I would love the reintroduction of other bulbs - incandescent for homes and ccfl for tvs, laptops and phones.

JTL

Sunspark Politics aside. I think the last domestic (in US) incandescent light bulb factory closed ~15 years ago, so even if standards were reversed, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to automatically come back.

Halogen might be different.

autobot

Larkenn
Here they say the federal ban doesn't apply to the 50 states:

https://www.educatedinlaw.org/2024/01/let-their-be-light-incandescent-light-bulbs-still-lawful-within-the-50-states-federal-ban-applies-to-territories-only/

macsforme

JTL I think the last domestic (in US) incandescent light bulb factory closed ₁₅ years ago, so even if standards were reversed, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to automatically come back.

Incandescent light bulbs were being manufactured this whole time, even in the traditional A19 size, within the allowable wattage limits. I’m not sure who was making them or where, but given this fact, I would think that bringing back 60W and 100W incandescents would be trivial.

I bought a few 60W incandescent bulbs from HealthLighting. These supposed have an even healthier spectrum versus standard incandescents, although the bulbs are very expensive and I didn’t personally detect a significant difference as far as comfort. I’m not sure how these are classified that they were able to get around the prohibition (perhaps some form of “specialty” or “therapeutic” use, although I’m speculating).

Sunspark

At least this kind of factory is easy to re-open, though there would be supply right away from Mexico, China, etc.

moonpie

Sunspark At least this kind of factory is easy to re-open, though there would be supply right away from Mexico, China, etc.

40W+ Incandescent Lightbulbs are Banned in Mexico
https://www.banderasnews.com/1501/nr-40Wlightbulbsnolongerallowedinmexico.htm

China Enters Final Phase of Incandescent Bulbs Ban
https://investorplace.com/2016/09/incandescent-bulbs-china/

The entire world has moved beyond flickering, inefficient incandescent bulbs in homes. Stop buying cheap, garbage LED bulbs.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

moonpie The entire world has moved beyond flickering, inefficient incandescent bulbs in homes. Stop buying cheap, garbage LED bulbs.

generally, I love my Waveform lightbulbs, they solved my issues with feeling constantly drained under regular cheap LEDs at home, objects are finally not "washed out" anymore, they're able to achieve 2700k while keeping "white looking white-ish instead of totally yellow", and for 90% of usecases they're an ideal incandescent replacement (also, pretty sure I prefer them to halogen)

but I still have a few incandescents and there's definitely something still unique about them I haven't seen captured in other lighting types yet. there's certain colors that I can only see under incandescent light (mostly blue-greens), even compared to Waveforms's high CRI

I'm already pretty relaxed under Waveform, but I can tell I'm even more relaxed under incandescent, despite the flicker. I can definitely tell the difference

(I don't think I'm "just biased", because I hadn't been using incandescent at all for 10 years, so I don't really have a "innate" preference for it. Just going off of what I'm seeing + feeling today)

Sunspark

It is strange to me that the government mandates that a bulb cannot be used when it doesn't pollute the air and doesn't require toxic materials in its manufacture.

"But the electricity!". So? If people are paying for it..

moonpie

It's strange to me that a person can believe factories and light bulbs are powered via unicorn farts.

moonpie

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs they're able to achieve 2700k...I hadn't been using incandescent at all for 10 years, so I don't really have a "innate" preference for it.

You have an "innate" preference to the exact color temp of incandescent. Incandescent = fire = monkey brain's like. There's nothing more to it than that.

https://ledstrain.org/d/2224-i-just-finished-testing-over-90-different-light-bulbs/

You can find low amplitude 60hz sine wave led bulbs without spending $15/bulb. You can even find ones that don't flicker. I can tolerate up to a 10% flicker depth without any issues at all. Beyond that, I can notice it.

Here is a $19/bulb from waveform that absolutely flickers and exceeds 10% flicker depth:

Here is the Great Value walmart brand:

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

moonpie You have an "innate" preference to the exact color temp of incandescent. Incandescent = fire = monkey brain's like. There's nothing more to it than that.

High CRI is also a factor. I tried some 2700k and 3000k non-dimmable LEDs that didn't flicker at all on camera (didn't notice them flickering either), they were decent and way better than the 100% flicker depth LEDs I used to have.

But everything was super yellow and orange looking including white sheets of paper — even though they claimed to have same temp as incandescent, the CRI was way worse.

With waveform, the temperature is generally orange which is nice, but whites still look white and saturated colors don't have an obvious yellow tint (unlike some other brands I was trying). They were the first brand I found that achieved this for me, and I had a pretty noticeable boost in energy/productivity, so I just decided to stick with it.

IK that there's other brands of high CRI bulbs that are cheaper. I've already found something that works for me so I'm not really interested in trying them. Maybe when I need to replace the bulbs I'll look into it to see if there are alternatives. But it's not important for me at the moment.

I do agree that "low" flicker depth is OK — the best computer screen I've found so far has some mild PWM and I don't notice it. (On the other hand, there are some PWM-free screens that are unusable for me.) Incandescent is also fine of course. Flicker isn't my main issue, unless it's high flicker depth.

Also, I actually prefer the 3000k waveforms to the 2700k, so it's not just because "I have a preference to the incandescent temperature". (On the other hand, I prefer incandescent 2700k to halogen 3000k… but with Waveform LEDs it's the other way around. Not sure why)

I can afford the bulbs and it's working great for me so I'll just stick with it for now

Sunspark

The only way the spectrum would be different would be with the gas mix they used to change the white point.

Incandescents and halogens are the same bulb, the difference is halogen uses a different gas so it burns hotter, which is why it looks whiter than regular incandescents. Structurally, both are the same bulb.

I suppose they could have made a custom filament that might support even hotter temperatures, which would affect the price.

That's about it.. the gas mix and the filament's ability to resist heat without snapping.

macsforme

Sunspark The only way the spectrum would be different would be with the gas mix they used to change the white point.

In the case of HealthLighting, the difference is the ingredients they use in the glass. The information is on their website. I can’t personally vouch for the validity of the science behind the health benefits they claim, but that is what they have to say about it. I thought it was a pleasant light, but didn’t notice a significant difference as far as comfort.

moonpie

$10+/bulb for 750-2000 hours? Talk about running a scam on people.

I have CFL's that are 20+ years old; LED's that are 10+ years old. All feel great with no issues. Stop buying the 10 for $1 packs of garbage light bulbs.

jordan

LED light is and will always be lower quality light. It does not match the quality of incandescent light. I have a incandescent bulb stockpile and the new old stock stuff I have last so damn long. The newer stock stuff doesn't last as long. They can certainly make longer lasting ones if they wanted. Also you can dim bulbs to get more life out of the. The energy savings from led is not worth the low quality light that is also circadian disrupting. They also don't emit IR. I am hoping rfk jr pushes to unban the bulbs. Forcing LEDs upon everyone is terrible and only is making people sick.

moonpie

jordan Now do the CFL and fluorescent lights everywhere that you haven't had a problem with since the 1970's.

Americans were sick long before LED bulbs came along.

moonpie

There is no magic ingredient:
https://www.chewy.com/flukers-neodymium-daylight-reptile/dp/863166
https://www.aerolights.com/product/60r20-fs-neodymium-full-spectrum-light-bulbs/
etc

$3.37/bulb is still outrageous considering you can get quality LED bulbs for that.

jordan

moonpie Luminescent light won't ever be as good as incandescence. They use blue or UV led with phosphors to be able to emit other colors. We already know certain phosphors cause eyestrain with people. Also that bulb is unnecessary. Any incandescent bulb is fine. I think I paid $1.41 for a twin 25w pack of new stock ge a19's. If I had to spend 10x that to obtain them I gladly will do so. No one will convince me to use LEDs. I priortize my own health over energy savings. Also LEDs don't emit IR like incandescent light does which is very healing to our bodies. Even the appearance of led light just looks so garbage compared to the other.

jordan

moonpie actually MANY people have issues with fluorescent lights there's certain ballasts that are actually alot worse. Certain stores, and doctor offices have set off bad symptoms for me in the past and I think the light as a kid in school was triggering too. Cfl and fluorescent isn't good light. Halogen is better then those.

I don't have any of what you mentioned, closest is a ccfl tv

moonpie

jordan there's certain ballasts

Thank you for confirming it has nothing to do with the light produced.

Now measure the screen on your UPRtek device so you can see that too is "bad" yet you don't have a problem with that light.

jordan

moonpie well I don't mean balasts as the only issue.. as we were mainly speaking of led. From what I showed there is narrow spikes, no red or ir light, a lot of blue light. It's very far from anything natural. Figured you would understand that from the pic

Actually I don't use the screen on my uprtek as it gives me symptoms. I use my phone as it's the most tolerable thing I own other than eink. I use my phone camera to view the screen unfortunately. I am mostly speaking of light in my house that I'm exposed to as I'm home. I do have some devices that are led lit still but I try to stay away from led as much as I can since it's not good light to be exposed to.

miripump

moonpie

it is an issue with the light produced. led diodes are a planar light source (look at the planar radiation pattern) that give off relatively more collimated rays which is unnatural compared to the sun and filament/hid sources that has more divergent rays. it's like listening to music through a cone shaped speaker driver vs. the actual waveform produced by an instrument. diverging vs converging echos etc.

the brain perceive objects illuminated by led's to be distant in space compared to HIDs and filament sources. same as how the brightly lit building a mile away is perceived to be distant despite it being brighter then the room you are in due to ray angle eccentricity. so light from leds don't stimulate accommodation at the eye as much (the more divergent the more stimulation, hence minus concave lenses) which leads to accommodative lead related eye strain. in other words, led light is actually too 'comfortable' for folks that have issues with accommodative insufficiency. the general population tends to have an issue with accommodative lag/excess hence they have no issues. there's a reason why optometry testing machines you rest your head on and look into still use filament sources.

we use computer monitors for eye testing in the optometric clinic and we noticed weird changes in our results when we changed from old dell CCFLs to newer led backlit monitors. eye movement was decreased and accommodative amplitude changed and the results were repeated when we A/Bed it.

flicker and spectrum is a red herring. filament bulb flicker too and your own blinking is low hertz flicker. daylight has tons of short wavelength content.

I think very soon the industry will pick up on this because folks in optometry and neuroscience already know about this. there is an indoor olympic track and field training center in china that downgraded their expensive LED setup to sulphur plasma. something about the brain the 'sensing the ground as being more present' which is pretty wacky but not really wacky since we already have tons of literature about how LRV of flooring affects gait.

personally I switched out my expensive optisolis leds in my home for cheapo CFL spirals and 12000k philip 'snow white' tubes and if anything the ambiance is superior. maybe that's why the corner store doesn't feel as chill since they swapped the overhead tubes for leds