Car Windshields .. anyone else?

ensete

My car is slowly disintegrating, I've come near to the limit of my auto mechanic capabilities keeping it running. I doubt it will make it to the end of the year

So I started looking for new/newer cars. o far I have test drove a total of 43 separate vehicles, a mix of cars, trucks, new, used, various trim level,s you name it. Every single one has triggered my eye strain due to the curvature of the windshield in front of the passenger seat.

Anyone else suffer from this?

photon78s

ensete

A strange suggestion:

Take a image from your point of view driving the car through the windshield and print the picture out on photo paper (not looking at the image on a harmful screen of course), and look at the printed image pretending you are still in the car. Does looking at this printout still cause you eye strain?

Sight is energy leaving the person.

-Leonardo Da Vinci

(Did Da Vinci actually state this and what does it mean?)
If so called "energy" is leaving the eye, does it get distorted by the windshield?

thebrianguy

ensete

YES! January 2024 started having massive pressure headaches and many other debilitating symptoms and I figured out early on my eyes were somehow involved.

Over the past year I have been able to connect a few dots and luckily overall am improved although the issues with the eyes still persist but also improved.

Windshields will often cause eye strain. It's actually almost instant. Theater stage lights are often quite bad. I have also noticed that light often coming through a window will cause issues.

Using a computer screen and other screens will cause issues. Although I have bought a couple of BenQ eye care monitors which have helped a lot. I suspect "glare" to be an issue. The monitors I struggle with the most just because I use a computer all day. Luckily I can usually work all day but I am sometimes in quite a bit of pain by the end of the day. My phone can contribute as well but not as much as it used to. I have also noticed if I have ear buds and noise going at the same time it just compounds the issue.

I have had issues going through a store but that doesn't happen very often. So overhead lights will sometimes cause me issues but not very often.

I have noticed my eye strain from computer use is often something that builds and usually isn't instant. I will often feel fine for a while and then I start feeling the strain. Sometimes the pain goes away fairly quickly after screen use and sometimes it persists but slowly goes away. It also often resets after sleeping at night.

Depending on the cause of the eye strain I will often get building tension in the occipital region and sometimes pain in the upper neck at the base of the skull or sometimes a little lower. It will also often spread around the neck to the sides and sometimes the front and upper chest. This is the part that confuses me. I have searched all around Reddit and the internet and I cannot find people complaining of their entire neck tensing up. This doesn't always happen. However I will often get upper neck tension/pressure when driving a car. As soon as I get out of the car it will usually go away instantly.

Sometimes I have had the issues compound and it triggers a chest or esophageal tightness that will feel like air hunger or shortness of breath. This is the worse symptom I ever get especially if it's severe and can last anywhere from 10 minutes to many hours. Luckily I don't get that much anymore.

wlmsn

I have a 2021 Subaru Ascent that doesn't bother me but my wife got a 2024 Forester last year and that did bother me the first 3-4 times I drove it. The good news is I got used to it pretty quickly and I don't have the issue anymore.

ensete

wlmsn I know there is a chance I could get used to a car I buy, I did eventually get used to my wifes car, but I'm hesitant to shell out thirty grand on a "maybe"

wlmsn

ensete yea I don't blame you. Maybe the dealership will let you test drive it a few times if you explain the situation?

For what it's worth the car bothered me less when I put the radio/display screen to max brightness (it was probably 50% brightness when I felt sick). It's possible I was catching it out of my peripheral vision

ensete

wlmsn I've been on a total of 67 test drives (Several cars I test drove multiple times across different days to see if I could adjust) and it didn't help. It took me literally a couple of years to adjust to my wife's car.

Gurm

I’ve been making a huge pest of myself at local dealerships. I bring coffee shop gift cards. I’ve driven a bunch of cars multiple times, because like many others I do eventually get used to cars.

Here’s what I’ve found:

Alfa - their Giulia and Stelvio screens make my eyes a little tired but not lingering. I think I could get used to them. I’ve driven them repeatedly and may very well order a new one - they’re in my top three.

Acura - I find their displays (gauges, not infotainment) hard to look at. If I can’t focus on a screen it’s a non starter.

BMW iDrive 9 - that’s the big curved display. It is hard to focus on so like the Acura, right out.

Volvo - infotainment gave me eyestrain for a week, gauges for a day. Then it passed.

BMW iDrive 7 - gauges are ok. Infotainment is hit or miss. Some better than others.

BMW iDrive 8 - eyestrain that builds. Hard pass.

Volkswagen/Audi - seems ok at first but messes my eyes up for hours afterwards.

Mercedes - actually ok. Surprising. I’m going back for a longer drive of a c300 which might be my next car!

Subaru - 100% ok, all models. The infotainment took a little getting used to but now it’s fine. Gauges fine. All fine.

Toyota - 100% ok.

Honda - same as Acura.

Lexus - same as Toyota.

Gurm

Update: Mercedes was a wash. Their displays are highly variable. In full daylight, I actually don't mind them but at night they were a bit much and the next morning my eyes were TIRED.

At this point the only modern displays I KNOW are ok for me are the ones in a RAV4 Prime (drove 24 hours over 3 days without issue) and the ones in Volvos.

Some BMW displays are ok (iDrive 7 usually, pre-upgrade with the smaller infotainment, so cars around 2021, or maybe the holdout models like the Z4 Roadster which has the older display style).

Some Mercedes displays are ok (again around 2021, or if you can find a model that isn't upgraded yet).

Acura infotainment was fine but their main display was hard to look at... that said it didn't leave me with any eyestrain.

Alfa made my eyes a little tired while driving, but MOST new displays do that and it passes. My current WRX took me almost a month to have all the displays on at normal brightness and still be comfy on a long drive. So if I am going to switch, Alfa is looking like the one unless I want to save up for a Volvo.

moonpie

What is the point of test driving 67+ vehicles without measuring the screens/lights to provide objective evidence? Providing the wave form, amplitude, and PWM actually helps vs subjective feelings.

Gurm

moonpie I think you're gonna have a hard time getting a bunch of dealerships to let you test drive with waveform meters. I hope I'm helping a little, offering my subjective impressions. Take it or leave it.

JTL

Gurm I think you're gonna have a hard time getting a bunch of dealerships to let you test drive with waveform meters.

I've known people who've visited many different types of stores with various flicker measuring devices to measure electronics, and usually the reaction is.. intrigue. So barring having extension cables all over the place I think with some coordination you have a good chance of visiting a dealership with some sort of metering equipment.

moonpie

Gurm Sales will let you do nearly anything to get a sale. You don't have to do a test drive and a smartphone camera will detect the really bad stuff quickly and also any flickering IR sensors. That would provide some data to estimate the wave form, amplitude, and PWM rate. A lightmaster, radex lupin, or a handheld scope like the FNIRSI DSO152 would provide actual data and not be too ridiculous to use. They will tell you to leave if you only want to test every single vehicle and not buy anything.

BWM X453e - "Feels fine"
vs
BWM X453e - 84hz high amplitude triangle wave for cluster; 120-360hz low amplitude square wave for infotainment

Every dealership has at least 5-6 vehicles indoor and they would not care if you used a regular scope and extension cords.

supe

@Gurm Thank you for your work! I am in the middle of choosing a new car and it has been a very bad experience so far, pwm flickering everywhere. I have tried Mercedes CLE and C (both 2024 models) with some of the worst flickering I have seen so far. An Audi RS3 (2025) also flickers like crazy (low frequency, high modulation). Now I am trying VW Golf R 8.5 (2025), it also flickers, but the frequency is quite high and the modulation low. I hope I can get used to it.