MagnuM Have you tried using a TV as your computer display before, AshX? Why not see what happens when you sit a minimum 10 feet away from whatever display you want to use to browse the web or what not.
Have you also tried viewing any display with sunglasses on, or trying any sort of colored lenses (e.g. FL-41)
Thank you again for taking the time to write and share your experience. That Apple forums thread is fascinating…but it makes sense that these issues have existed for quite a while.
No, I’ve never used a TV as a display. Part of that is because I’ve used MacOS for the past 14 years, exclusively, and it doesn’t play nice with most monitors.
The first time I was ever uncomfortable with a computer was the iMac Pro in 2018. I learned recently that iMac had PWM. I assumed it was blue light. I tried a Mac Mini in 2019 with a Dell monitor and returned it after a day because the text was blurry. Bought the iMac 2019 I used for years instead. I used Windows as a kid until I got my first MacBook Pro 13” in 2011. I had several incarnations of the iMac 21.5” that I exclusively used for music production and video editing: the 2011, 2015, 2017, and 2019. The latter 2 were the only 4K Retina ones, I believe.
I did try sunglasses (non-polarized, polarized sunglasses give me headaches and make it hard to focus) but it’s hard to tell if it would work long-term. My first symptoms, assuming I don’t get the stabbing eye pain immediately, is that the eye muscles and skin around my eyes start to feel almost like sandpaper or like they’re being “shocked” by an electrical current. The MacBook Airs actually gave me nerve pain on the left side of my face along with the other symptoms I mentioned earlier. My heart rate was so jacked up for hours afterward I couldn’t sleep. It was quite frankly terrifying - I’ve never experienced anything like it. I had been testing screens for a few days and it seems like the 15” MBA M4 was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I’m not sure whether I should test with sunglasses because I’m a bit concerned I’m not as aware of the warning sensations while wearing them.
I haven’t tried FL-41 glasses either. I probably should give it a shot. Perhaps it will deal with the “this screen feels simultaneously too bright and not bright enough” I felt on the Airs. I notice this on a lot of the new TV’s I see at Target. I haven’t seen a new TV I’ve found comfortable. The whites seem like they’re a strange, blue-heavy white compared to even my iPhone which looks more paper-like. Very similar to some LED headlights. The 15” MBP has a much more even tone and is much crisper and calmer than those Airs. Interestingly, some of the new MBP models seem to be more readable, but it varies wildly from unit to unit even in an Apple Store. There seems to be very little consistency anymore, which makes finding a suitable device an even bigger challenge if you can’t afford to tie up thousands of dollars for days or weeks at a time.
If I were to guess, inspired by your journaling and experience, my issues seem to stem primarily from flicker, specifically modulation depth. I haven’t measured my iPhone 13’s PWM frequency, but I believe it’s in the high 500s/low 600s. I also believe it is not present, or as present at high brightness. I use this with no setting modifications. Auto brightness, True Tone, and night shift are all enabled.
I also can use the iPads at my local Shake Shack. It’s only a few minutes but I don’t get dizzy or anything. I suspect they’re iPad Pros based on how smooth the scrolling is. They updated the software recently and it still seems fine. I have half a mind to ask the manager what model they are, lol!
My mom’s car has a touch screen. I can tell it’s a little uncomfortable, but over time I seem to have become mostly fine with it.
It’s why I’m somewhat obsessed with figuring out what the gray color flicker is on Macs. It’s the only commonality across devices spanning a decade I can’t use. I’ve seen TikTok videos of people recording the news on their TV’s and some of them even have that flicker. Certain LED light bulbs are a problem and some are mostly fine. I also used to help my mom with her work computer which was a Dell Latitude 13”. It was fine when it was on Windows 10 but now on 11 it’s uncomfortable.
I’m very curious if my Plasma TV is usable, based on what you have shared. It is a Samsung and I found an old recording and it does have diagonal PWM waves visible just on a regular video recording (not slow motion). They’re thick, very light gray, and move quickly. If it is, I wonder what would happen if I hook a Mac up to it.
I haven’t used CRT’s since 2006 when I still used the good old family Compaq. I am curious though. I’m determined to find a solution because I’ve been unable to do any work for months and I have to find a mitigation strategy as you said. I don’t need anything flashy - just something that can run Pro Tools, Premiere Pro, and Photoshop.
Edit: I’ve been browsing that Apple forums link you shared and the posts from 2018 about a “strobed backlight” sounds very similar to BFI (is it the same thing?) and the grey color flicker. I’ll have to keep looking into this…Plasma TV doesn’t seem to do this from what I can tell.