20% are sensitive to OLED screens?

K-Moss

"A minority of people, estimated between 5% and 20%, experience sensitivity to OLED screens, according to Medium.com."

20% would be terribly high, 1 in 5. Impossible to know because the vast majority of people getting discomfort and headaches from their OLED smartphones will not blame the OLED screen.

AshX

K-Moss

You’re correct. Most people don’t even make the connection between flicker from screens and lighting and their eye or neurological symptoms. It took me nearly 3 years post-COVID infection to realize what it was - and I had seen multiple optometrists and neurologists.

Blue light is the scapegoat, but as an optometrist who knew of PWM and dithering said, blue light glasses are completely worthless.

I know many people who get migraines or blurry vision after using their iPhones or Samsungs for 30 minutes. They all blame it on screen time or blue light or their age.

This goes beyond OLED, though. I keep trying to make this point on this forum: we have to move beyond IPS, TN, MiniLED, OLED, etc. and instead break this down to the fundamentals of pixel behavior and how it is affected by everything from backlight type like W-LED, CCFL, polarization, the interaction between PWM, dither, and voltage, and so on and so on.

OLED is not an inherently negative technology just like MiniLED isn’t. But its implementation is very, very poor at present because it is more cost effective to introduce significant flicker to extend battery life and the life of the panel. Its no wonder many are negatively affected when these compromises are being made and worsened compared to earlier iterations of the technology.

K-Moss

AshX "OLED is not an inherently negative technology just like MiniLED isn’t. But its implementation is very, very poor at present because it is more cost effective to introduce significant flicker to extend battery life and the life of the panel. Its no wonder many are negatively affected when these compromises are being made and worsened compared to earlier iterations of the technology."

OLED is implemented correctly on the Moto Edge with Flicker Prevention enabled. The only flicker is when the screen refreshes and the modulation is relatively low.

YET a top comment on Nick's Moto Edge 2025 PWM video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq9bk-nkayM&pp=ygUSbW90byBlZGdlIDIwMjUgcHdt) reads:

"Had the last gen and sold it, absolutely murders your eyes."

Therefore, given OLED is correctly implemented on the Edge, why do so many have issues with the Moto Edge pOLED displays?

ITwebs

AshX

Could you explain a little about how "voltage" can affect eye strain. I heard this the first time.

AshX

K-Moss

K-Moss, a few things.

Study those graphs shared in the video. That waveform is incredibly jagged. It doesn’t matter if the PWM is high if it is that chaotic. The black bands also indicate a high modulation depth. There are way too many settings, including the variable refresh rate, so it’s not going to be stable. My impression is the panel might have transistor leakage occurring creating those jagged waveforms.

Additionally, the video says the OLED panel dithers heavily. So you’re going to get 30Hz or lower flicker from dithering.

It’s not a good panel. They’re clearly using so many software tricks to compensate, as noted in the video.

This is what I’ve been saying in my responses to your posts: it’s more than just OLED. I’ve identified several different causes for symptoms after watching that video. This is not a well-designed OLED phone, but is very typical for any wide gamut smartphone - LCD or OLED - in 2025.

I appreciate how passionate you are about OLED. Have you considered purchasing a Carson Microflip microscope and an Opple Lightmaster to do testing yourself? We are always looking for users who are interested in going out and testing devices for PWM, dither, and other forms of flicker. The Carson Microflip is $20 on Amazon. I think this would be more constructive and therefore you won’t be guessing and can observe OLED behavior yourself. It is what I have been doing with different devices.

This is a solvable problem. OLED is not a mystery nor is LCD. These are technologies made by human beings and by doing testing and gathering data, we learn more and all of this becomes a lot less scary. Just some food for thought!

K-Moss

AshX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2uRHQNh_is

This video shows the Edge 2024 has no dithering. He shows the pixels under a microscope with perfect stability.

Therefore, we know for sure all user reports of issues with the Edge 2024 are entirely unrelated to dithering.

Nick says on the 2025 video: "Last year's phone doesn't have dithering according to my archived tests. I'd recommend getting it over this year's as the processor is barely any different."

Also, the 2024 version gets far less bright, which is a key plus if one wants to keep their screen close to 100% brightness and use Extra Dim to lower the brightness.

I'm surprised Nick doesn't more forcefully suggest the 2024 version over the 2025 version given the considerable differences in dithering and brightness.

AshX

K-Moss

2:15 he says “possible dithering detected using the radiant color setting.”

Unless he is using a 960 fps slow motion, he will not be able to detect dithering completely, especially at the 144Hz setting. He’s likely using 240 fps slow motion.

Again, the same criticisms persist on the 2024 model. Dithering could be playing a role, but it’s clear there are many more problems than just that on either model.

This is an issue with the MacBooks and many Windows laptops that are IPS LCD. OLED is problematic for many likely because it has a higher likelihood to introduce forms of flicker. Where it can be superior for those who may have problems with IPS or MiniLED is the fast response time, lack of a backlight, and ability to be high contrast and at least in the iPhone 13’s case, display colors without resorting to dithering as much. This of course can be negated by an OS update.

The only way to determine whether OLED as a stand-alone technology is inferior or problematic to IPS, TN, VA, MiniLED, and CRT is to run a double blind experiment with those technologies using their most inherent capabilities in similar states of operation and to record the results. Any researchers reading this, you’re welcome to give it a go! I’ll be the first to donate toward funding it!

Until then, we are left in the gray area.

AshX

ITwebs

The short non-technical answer is that transistor leakage is when there is a unstable voltage being sent to the screen. This has become a huge issue as companies have focused on long battery life and as a result are underpowering components. It’s something you really cannot fix and is also a quality control problem.

So what it ends up looking like is lighting strike flashes across the screen that you can capture. They are irregular, too, and can cause severe eye pain over time.

So when you see a flicker reading with all those jagged edges and jumps, it likely means the voltage is very unstable. Devices can acquire this over time, or be like that out of the box. It’s why it’s a bit risky to buy a used laptop without properly testing it for transistor leakage.

It’s a massive rabbit hole that I still don’t understand a ton about. Some users over on Reddit wrote informative deep dives going into the technical details.

This is why I really think we need to go even deeper beyond IPS, OLED, MiniLED, etc. and actually break down the technologies. There is a ton going on from the hardware side and manufacturing that is playing a role. It’s completely ridiculous to me that OLED iPhones after the 13 are even worse from a flicker standpoint. But the same can be said for the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro.

And let’s not even get into the manufacturers in China and Vietnam and how the pandemic really forced panel manufacturing to a bad place where quality is down.

We’d all be better off crowdfunding our own flicker free, eye care monitor company at this point.

K-Moss

AshX Do we have adequate data to assert OLED, as it is commonly implemented on smartphones, is a safe and gentle display technology? How do we know it is not damaging eyes? At this point we have about 10 years of data?

One says:

"Looking back, i realized OLED is an extremely unsafe and crazy technology and it's just like with big pharma: follow the money, this is in no way safe or meant for humans long term. People make it up like "Oh its not so many people" - how come i found four youtubers with the same problem reporting about it? It's not a minority.

What happens in 1,2,3 years after looking at OLED? Its totally crazy. I never experienced this with even CRT."

As I mentioned before, I have a friend who is, like many, addicted to his OLED iPhone. About a year ago his eyes suddenly went blurry and he needed cataract surgery to clear up his vision. I have no clue if there is a definitive link, but among many things it is something I wonder about.

I did find a link between RF emissions from the phone, such as wifi, and damage to the eye's lens. That's something very few would even consider. 4G/LTE/5G would be significantly stronger than wifi.

"There are poor oxidative toxic effects of one hour of Wi-Fi exposure on the lens in the animals."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3955064/

Anyway, at this point I don't believe we have adequate data on OLED safety. Do we? We do know many enthusiasts claim to have issues with PWM even though the PWM frequency even in worst cases still is at least 240 Hz, which is supposed to be well beyond what the eyes can register. Why then does a significant minority experience strong symptoms from many OLED smartphones?

By the way, when I came in from the sunny outdoors and washed my hands in a dark bathroom, I noticed my eyes were seeing the after-effects of UV light. Violet. I consider this quite positive as that violet light is essential for many health functions, including vision. Cataract lenses tend to block UV, which is bound to cause problems since the organism has not been designed to function without UV light into the eyes and brain. For one, the LEDStrain community member Jordan has cited myopia being linked to inadequate UV light into the eyes.

For example: Violet Light Exposure Can Be a Preventive Strategy Against Myopia Progression: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28063778/

"These results suggest that VL is one of the important outdoor environmental factors for myopia control. Since VL is apt to be excluded from our modern society due to the excessive UV protection, VL exposure can be a preventive strategy against myopia progression."

Here is one suing for $100 million due to a thyroid cancer diagnosis subsequent to spending over 7000 hours spraying hazardous pesticides: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michigan-state-pesticides-cancer-lawsuit-b2810356.html

As you can see, if a link can be shown, the financial liabilities for damaging health and life can be very severe.

Meanwhile, one says:

"OLED is extremely harmful to sensitive eyes. Especially the phone models that brand starts with 'i'. There are a few discussion between LCD and OLED. Many of people are talking about switching back to LCD phones. I personally also hope there is a way to reduce the damage to eyes from OLED screen."

Another valuable comment:

"I don't know about everybody else, but me, after using OLED phones since 2010, I never had any problems until two years ago when I started having headaches. Now I have to keep the usage under two hours a day."

JTL

AshX So what it ends up looking like is lighting strike flashes across the screen that you can capture. They are irregular, too, and can cause severe eye pain over time.

Also saw your similar reply on MacRumours. That's what jumps out at me and what I'm most curious about.

ITwebs

AshX

Thanks for explanation. How about led light tube? Can voltage play a role as well? Recently the place I work has installed new sets of led light tubes, which causes severe eyestrain. But there is no detectable flickering found. I now have no ideas about the causes of the problem.

ITwebs

AshX

Regarding crowdfunding, do you have any suggestions how to initiate it? I think we should seriously think about it. I even think it can be a potential business for us as well. It will be great if there is a company that can earn money and at the same time helping humanity.

AshX

K-Moss we have adequate data to assert OLED, as it is commonly implemented on smartphones, is a safe and gentle display technology?

I don’t believe we have any data or studies done analyzing most of the technology we use, including OLED and LCD. I remember growing up in the late ‘90s and early 2000s and people were concerned about holding cell phones to their ears because of radiation. After the launch of the iPhone that sort of discussion ceased.

I doubt we’ll know for the next 30-50 years. Technology is advancing so quickly that even things that were commonplace 5 years ago are being replaced by newer things. It doesn’t give scientists much time to study them.

It’s all an interesting topic. All we can do is speculate and go by symptoms and our own biology. If it’s bothering you, don’t use it, etc.

AshX

JTL

It was brought to my attention by the mod of one of the flicker sensitive subreddits a few months ago. He wrote a fantastic technical breakdown about the topic and also gave examples of it in the wild so to speak. Once you see it you can’t unsee it.

I have a theory the gray color flicker is at least in part caused by overdriving panels, but I’m still testing and looking into the science behind it. It’s not limited to OLED at all. There are many LCD phones and computers that have it. Something about the 15” Mac IPS LCD laptops seem to be particularly prone to this issue.

The new Airs are the most egregious and I suspect that’s because of how hard they’re driving the panels in such a thin, low powered system. The fact that the older Retina screens don’t all have this (particularly 13” Pro models) or if they do even at 15”, they modulation is not as extreme, to me says there is a hardware basis exacerbated by software.

It makes sense if you’re pushing brighter, more colorful screens while making them even thinner and removing any sort of cooling mechanism. Apple patents seem to imply they’re aware of it (and try to compensate for it), and I’ve brought it up to some folks who know the patents better than me (they’re not entirely sold on my theory as it relates to the gray color flicker) but overdriving panels is a thing that is done, with consequences in many instances.