Did you solved problems with TN monitors?

Aquila

Hello guys, I think that my strain is related to new IPS models.
Using an old tn laptop,.I don't feel headache or eye strain.

Do you suggest some TN panels 1080p (gaming ) for my desktop PC?
Thank you

WhisperingWind

Aquila

Everyone here has different conditions, so I can only speak for myself.

I can use IPS panels if the display is of high quality (i.e., free from PWM flicker, temporal dithering, pixel inversion artifacts, etc.). However, I find it difficult to find such an IPS monitor nowadays. I previously used a BenQ BL2711U for almost six years, and it was the perfect IPS monitor for me until its display broke. I haven't found a new IPS monitor that is easy on my eyes since. I bought an old BenQ GL2450, a TN panel monitor that uses 6-bit+FRC, and I'm currently using it. On Windows, it causes significant eye strain. Only the muted color palette of the macOS Sonoma interface is tolerable on it, which I attribute to the FRC dithering. My observations are visual; I haven't conducted any tests with a microscope.

The only BenQ GL2450 monitor that suited me had the combination of vendor TPV, scaler MST TSUMU58PWHL, and display AUO M240HTN01.2 (I purchased it from my workplace). The other BenQ GL2450 monitors I found (5 units) did not have the same vendor-display-scaler combination, and they were all quite uncomfortable for the eyes. Therefore, I believe the problem isn't inherent to IPS / TN technology itself, but rather lies in the specific implementation and quality control by the monitor manufacturer.

My 2019 Sony IPS TV doesn't cause any problems, just like the old 2017 iPad Pro 11", the MacBook Pro 13" 2015, and iPhones up to the model 7 (after that, I only bought OLED). Something might have happened recently that many manufacturers started making IPS panels really bad. The most likely reason is increased competition and the desire to make products cheaper in order to stay competitive.

cofisc

Aquila LG FLATRON W1942S is my safe tn panel since 2009! unfortunately it has only 1440x900 resolution with 75hz .

K-Moss

WhisperingWind

You write: "after that, I only bought OLED). Something might have happened recently that many manufacturers started making IPS panels really bad."

Isn't possible you began finding IPS panels really bad only after your visual system was damaged by OLED?

simplex

WhisperingWind scaler MST TSUMU58PWHL, and display AUO M240HTN01.2

I think, this combination is result of sync between monitor's processing (smoothing) and panel FRC.

In laptop panel I can set 6-bit to turn off FRC and get calm (panel has eDP connector and no processing), but in monitor I can also set 6-bit and it helps a little, I think it ( processing unit ) smooth signal each bit depth it accept. Maybe, monitor processing add majority part of pixel flickering ? Because in 6-bit I can see banding in 8-bit images, it does mean FRC didnt work, but processing still there

WhisperingWind

K-Moss

Isn't possible you began finding IPS panels really bad only after your visual system was damaged by OLED?

I noticed that my eyes are sensitive to PWM long before I got my first OLED phone.

simplex

but in monitor I can also set 6-bit and it helps a little

I have the same problem with the BenQ GL2450. If I use a 6-bit signal (without temporal dithering from the GPU) in Linux/Windows, I feel strain in my eyes.

Maybe, monitor processing add majority part of pixel flickering ?

Deepseek states that cheap or poorly designed scalers can introduce microscopic delays and "jitter" into the signal synchronization. This creates chaotic, irregular flickering that is especially harmful because the brain cannot adapt to it. However, this is an AI, and the response could be incorrect.

AshX

K-Moss Isn't possible you began finding IPS panels really bad only after your visual system was damaged by OLED?

No, it’s because manufacturers started phasing out LCDs after OLED was released so what you have now is not the same LCD panels from a decade ago, and not built to the same standards.

The industry views OLED as the future and with the exception of very high quality LCD monitors (i.e. expensive) you’re likely not going to get fantastic panels.

simplex

WhisperingWind

When I get eye-strain of FRC, I can go watch TV. It has PWM 737hz sine-type, and 450nm blue peak (danger zone!). But after I watch it 20+ min, my strain dissappeared. Totally. If I dont watch it, strain can exist up to 2 hours.

Ideas ?

AshX

simplex When I get eye-strain of FRC, I can go watch TV. It has PWM 737hz sine-type, and 450nm blue peak (danger zone!). But after I watch it 20+ min, my strain dissappeared. Totally. If I dont watch it, strain can exist up to 2 hours.

Ideas ?

I noticed something similar after I got triggered by the MacBook Air. Certain types of lighting seemed to “reset” the brain and calm down the symptoms. I wondered if it was coincidence until your post.

WhisperingWind

simplex

I have no idea how this could work, but maybe it will help.

JTL

simplex When I get eye-strain of FRC, I can go watch TV. It has PWM 737hz sine-type, and 450nm blue peak (danger zone!). But after I watch it 20+ min, my strain dissappeared. Totally. If I dont watch it, strain can exist up to 2 hours.

Ideas ?

I'd be curious how a "better" display (in terms of not having PWM or blue light peak) would work for this.

K-Moss

AshX It's nonsense LCD was phased out. Total nonsense. Vast majority of desktop monitors are LCD, and there are countless phones with LCD panels, including those by Moto, but also including numerous models made for China and India.

Moto G67 for the Indian market is LCD with good specs. There's nothing wrong with LCD, and it doesn't flicker. When I say it doesn't flicker, I'm referring to this: If I take a phone camera to an OLED phone, I see flicker up to 100% brightness. With LCD, there is no such flicker. Period.

By the way, my tolerance for LCD is pretty good. I can get along just fine with ALL my LCD screens EXCEPT once I have been exposed to OLED. After OLED exposure the LCD's bother me as well, at least for a certain period of time. I think I need about 2 sleeps to recover from OLED.

simplex

AshX calm down the symptoms

You have measurments?

AshX

simplex You have measurments?

I don’t have measurements but I have the type of LED lighting fixture. It’s very bad, too, so that’s why it’s peculiar. Some of the Staples and Best Buy stores near me use that type of LED lighting. They look like long thin vertical LED’s with metal housing that has notches on either side of them. Other LEDs at stores like ShopRite are long, uniform LEDs that don’t bother me at all.

AshX

K-Moss

Do some research into the manufacturing of smartphone LCD screens in particular over the past 5-8 years. Top G on the PWM sensitive and temporal noise subreddits talks a lot about the shift that occurred and why 2025 LCD panels are not the same as 2008-2018 panels.

If you’re using flicker free LCDs and are not sensitive to dithering, then it makes sense OLEDs are triggering to you. You’re not sensitive to the specific dithering frame patterns and frequencies for whatever reason, but PWM is a problem, or perhaps additionally the pentile Subpixel array of OLED.

macsforme

K-Moss When I say it doesn't flicker, I'm referring to this: If I take a phone camera to an OLED phone, I see flicker up to 100% brightness. With LCD, there is no such flicker. Period.

To my understanding, the type of flickering you are detecting with this method is black frame insertion, which is a technique specific to OLED panels to reduce unwanted degradation (such as burn-in). This is not applicable to LCD panels, nor can anyone exclude the presence of flickering on an LCD panel using this method (again, to my understanding).

simplex

JTL

Who knows, all modern displays I tried, use temporal FRC. They have hardware blue peak shift, and DC-like dimming ( no classic full brightness depth PWM )

K-Moss

macsforme It's not black frame insertion. I see the same flicker on the Edge pOLED models at 100% brightness and with flicker prevention enabled. Moreover, I am saying there is no discernable flicker using any phone camera settings when analyzing any IPS LCD I have available to me. What kind of flicker is it that even a phone, no matter the settings, is unable to pick up? The phone picks up the flicker on DC-dimmed OLED, but never LCD.

See my thread here: https://ledstrain.org/d/3821-edge-2025-through-16000-shutter-speed-photograph

The kind of flicker some LCDs allegedly have requires a microscope to see it, not a normal phone camera. Ergo, if even a phone camera no matter the settings is unable to pick it up, I have no idea how it could be bothering one's eyes and brain.

Aquila

simplex Generally you need to check HDR 400 monitor (these are 8 bit), and avoid Adobe RGS higher than 79%

AOC Q25G4SR Is 2k 24.5 true 8 bit for example.

simplex

Aquila

KSF dont bother me

macsforme

K-Moss Yes, my whole point was that black frame insertion (detectable via the smartphone camera method you mentioned) is generally an OLED characteristic rather than LCD. So, this difference is unsurprising, and unless this was the user’s only flicker sensitivity factor, it does not tell us a whole lot about the relative comfort/safety of OLED versus LCD.