$10 spectroscope shows KSF phosphor, peak wavelengths, melanopsin gap, etc

MagnuM

Arg, that's frustrating that such useful information wouldn't be easily available!

Yes, the Dell P2425 has specific RGB settings you can set on the OSD. I can leave R and G at 100%, and set B to 0%, and be fine, but it doesn't look very good, lol. A conversation with ChatGPT last week suggested:

"Some newer display modes (on certain monitors and OS-level tools) are starting to expose this more directly via “circadian / melanopic reduction” controls rather than crude RGB shifting."

The AI talked about melanopic load a lot, and I think it's onto something (at least in my case). It said my goal should be

lower melanopic content per nit, not just “more yellow”

The AI found it very interesting that I was fine on my CCFL Dell U2410 until I upped the brightness past 0%. It then described:

That suggests a dose effect, not just wavelength sensitivity.

In other words, it may not be “blue light OR brightness,” but:

melanopic load = spectrum × intensity

Once that crosses your threshold, symptoms appear quickly

In all my years of researching, I have heard several times that some tints can sometimes help folks with flicker sensitivity. I don't understand the connection or science behind that myself.

I will go months/years without even checking in on this forum sometimes, and it's disheartening to see so many familiar names here that seem to be no closer to finding out the source of their problems as when I last checked in. I'm more interested in the names that mentioned they found something that worked for them, and then stopped posting entirely. That last part is key, as I'm sure each and every one of us have faced a "false dawn" before.

User jasonpicard here (Jason38 on BlurBusters) was only able to wear aggressive orange SCT glasses using LED displays. He seemed like the only other light-sensitive individual on this entire forum, yet his case sounded even more severe than mine. His eureka moment was buying the ViewSonic XG270. He said he doesn't understand why it works, just that it works, and after so many years he doesn't even really care why. You can view his posting history here.

I also find it interesting how different forums seem to have certain inherent biases. BlurBusters seem to be focused on blur a lot as the cause for some people's health-related issues. A lot of gamers seem to post there. They discovered that sometimes faster Hz monitors can actually increase symptoms in some people, and downgrading back to 60 Hz was their answers. For some, the increased Hz made all the difference. Differences in motion blur seems to be the common factor.

On BlurBusters, Jason made a post that if he were to guess, he was probably the most sensitive to motion blur. But then why did the aggressive orange SCT glasses seem to help him so much in years prior? There's a lot of unanswered questions there of course.

When asking ChatGPT a potential cause in Jason's case, it suggested that one of the key features of the ViewSonic XG270 was actually its minimum brightness setting. Jason did mention that he still had to keep his monitor at 0%, and may have even enabled BFI (Black Frame Insertion) to lower the brightness even further and smooth out the motion (introduces flicker though). ChatGPT suggested that Jason may have accidentally fixed his source issue by not getting to the "melanopic load threshold".

I again want to stress that everybody's case is different, and I don't want to assume that my case is exactly like Jason's. Jason mentioned that he does a lot of gaming, which I am unable to do anymore (unless I can solve this issue). I got the orange SCT glasses suggestion from him. It was a workaround solution for him, but he wanted a better one, which is why he was posting here. Once he bought the ViewSonic XG270, he was able to ditch the orange SCT glasses. It's the only clear-and-dry fix I've seen anyone do here that I'm aware of.

I have never been convinced about dithering myself. Dithering seems to make no difference in my case. I've used monitors with 6-bit + FRC, and I've used true 8-bit. I'm not saying it isn't a huge issue for your specific case, I'm just talking about my specific case. For example, Jason actually introduced flicker to solve his sensitivity.

Z3R0Gravitas

MagnuM Yeah, I've used an old 6+2 FRC 24" LCD WLED Dell monitor for many years. But then also am sure on sensitivity to 8+2 TD on an OLED tablet (although the colour setting seemed reversed). So it's TD/FRC algo and implementation than matters. If at all. Such variability...

Melanoptic load - there could well be an absolute Ami but of melanopsin stimulation that one can't tolerate… If one is also sensitivite to daylight, as many/most with ME/CFS are (I have been mildly in the past).

But my thinking is the reverse could be true too. May e relevant for those ot daylight sensitive. That the lack of cyan wavelengths causes excess pupil dilation that makes the panel's other wavelengths (more so blue and/or red) overwhelming.

Being OK with a low minimum brightness screen on 0% brightness (and F.Lux further dimming) makes sense to me. Pupil dilation could already be maxed out (for the specific lighting setting), so the eyes can't 'over expose' the screen any further. To use a camera light metering analogy.

Orange glasses will actually as a kind of artificial macular, too, filtering out damaging/straining blue light. Tipping the balance back towards red light flux, that aids mitochondrial energy production (in the very energy intensive retina).

It's difficult because any one I tervention has many (off-target) effects. So conclusions should be cautious. Same with devices - it's very hard to change just one aspect, by switching products. I suspect there may be a lot of weak conclusions because of this (even before placebo/nocebo effects).

MagnuM

Z3R0Gravitas My case is an interesting one because of how clear cut it is. Even the neurologist I saw in January was amazed with how specific it is. I don't have any problems with daylight, and never have. Meanwhile, looking at light emitted from LED monitors hurts instantly (especially white backgrounds).

Your theory about the lack of cyan produced in the LED spectrum (around 480 nm) is the most interesting one I have heard to date. It could potentially even be a "theory of everything" for my specific case. The lack of cyan would theoretically have my pupils too dilated, allowing too much HEV (High Energy Light, e.g. blue light) in, and then whatever mechanism of the eye/brain senses an overstimulation or overexposure to light kicks in and causes the hurt to force a change to occur. It makes sense to me, but seems like it might be difficult to prove.

Another possibility perhaps is the lack of NIR (Near Infrared) light that the LED spectrum produces. I don't really think it produces any actually. Even the visible red portion of it is pretty pathetic. I remember hearing some podcasts lately about how red or NIR can balance out the blue. Or maybe it was the part where red light is needed for mitochondria to produce ATP and create energy. Lots to learn in this field for sure.

I also wonder if blue light is more problematic with folks that have BVD (Binocular Vision Disorder) such as myself. I would never think I had it, as my eyes appear to align fine, and nobody has ever told me otherwise. I often get strain in my right eye only when looking at an LED-backlit display - even if just watching YouTube on it. There's a lot of factors here which are confusing for sure.

Z3R0Gravitas

MagnuM seems like it might be difficult to prove

Did I mention in the post, those glasses devices that emit specifically cyan/turquise light (only)? Eg Luminette 3 and Re-Timer 2. They are deliberately maximally melanosin stimulating, for wakrefulness and sleep entrainment. My hypothesis would be that they could either help you, or hurt you a lot (possible migraine trigger). If outdoor background light helps, then that would seem like a good indication.

On NIR light, for sure it helps direct ATP production and general wellness, indirectly. Glenn Geofries being the famous scientist talking about that balance, etc (eg YouUTbe).

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