Gurm Hi Gurm,

I haven't ruled it out yet, but I'm not sure if it applies in my situation.

At work I use a Dell U2410 (with the settings in my original post) on an Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 display adapter.

At home I use a Dell U2410 (with the settings in my original post) on a "Zotac GeForce GTX 580 AMP!" graphics card.

I'm not sure if the latter display adapter uses temporal dithering or not, but it does use nVidia drivers. If I remember correctly, nVidia has temporal dithering disabled by default.

Both work and home seem to be "equal bad" when it comes to eventual symptoms, which is why I've considered temporal dithering a "point of interest" only at this present time.

    You are correct, MagnuM. GTX 580 wouldn't have any temporal dither. I'd look elsewhere. If you are in a controlled environment, with a CFL-lit monitor (2410) and a GeForce card... that's a puzzle. You don't have an abundance of blue light, so I'd guess it's overuse.

    Or, in what was most assuredly the case for me a couple years ago, it could be the work environment. I moved from an office with lighting I could tolerate and monitors that worked for me to an office with harsh full-spectrum overhead fluorescents. They gave me such intense eyestrain that it took literally days to recover at home. My employer was good enough to let me work in a closed office with incandescent bulbs and my symptoms slowly improved. At this point, we've moved to a new office with equally terrible lighting, but I remove the light over my desk and wear a visor at all times. It helps a lot but isn't perfect.

    You might want to consider that, because it sounds like your home environment and your home/work hardware are both just fine...

    Two weeks ago I worked with two ccfl monitors during a business trip: dell u2410 and dell u2711. With u2410 I totally got a headache and eyes irritation at any level of brightness/contrast (flux doesn't help me). As I understand the main problem of u2410 is PWM and it seems that I am very sensitive to it. There was another option with u2711 so I also tried it. With default settings on u2711 I don't feel any problems with eyes. I was working on it during two weeks.

    System configuration: integrated graphics of intel i7 second generation + Ubuntu 14.04

    15 days later

    Hi MagnuM ,

    I have a very similar symptoms I think. I will share here as I've been struggling with these for more than 4 months now, and this could help others:

    I started a programming job in a startup end of 2015, and worked on my Samsung laptop 7/7 for 3 months non-stop. Then around Christmas 2015 I felt so bad in my head and realized that I couldn't look at a computer screen (or my phone screen) without feeling very dizzy and totally unable to focus.

    I left my job in the startup the next day (it was quite a lot of stress actually) and went to hospital to do a brain scan (CT), nothing! Then I did eyes check, they diagnosed a little astigmatism (0.25). Then I checked the ears (with a sound test) and they said that I probably had a vestibular neuronitis (maybe stimulated by stress, but this is said to be "multi-factorial").

    So I tried to re-organize my life to make it healthier and more balanced (as that's the main advice from doctors when having vestibular neuronitis). I tried to completely stop looking at the screen, also started regular sport, and did more social activities (friends, etc).

    I was getting better, and after 1 month away from the keyboard, I started a new job. Programmer again, but only 5/7. As soon as I started to look at the computer screen again, the symptoms came back:
    - very difficult to focus when looking at the computer screen (after 15mn).
    - NEW SYMPTOM : light sensitivity from the big window on my right. I had to cover my eyes with my right hand!
    - NEW SYMPTOM : sound sensitivity, and for a few days, skin sensitivity.

    I thought I would have to quit after the first week, as I couldn't do any reasoning in front of my computer (and coding is mostly about logic and reasoning !!!). But I didn't quit, here is what I did:
    - Continued to do sport, have social life,
    - Stay away from computer/phone in the evening and in the weekends,
    - I also bought a Kindle to look at programming books, as I could perfectly read on a Kindle (no headaches or uncomfortable feelings).
    - Turned to almost minimum my laptop screen brightness (even though I read that with low brightness, the backlit will flicker at lower frequency...go figure...).

    and little by little, after 3 weeks (beginning of march), I could start to feel better 2 or 3 days per week. Often it worsened at the end of the week (which was really depressing, as I often thought I was done with the problem).

    So here I am！ It's been two months in this new job, and I'm much better for sure if I compare with 4 months ago when all started. BUT, if I compare with the normal me 8 months ago, I'm still handicapped, no doubts.

    I think I have a neuronitis stimulated by computer screen (so I think it's the combination of two problems).

    I wish I will recover much better, and here is what I plan for the future:
    - I'm gonna buy a non-PWM Dell monitor U2515H and see If any improvements (flicker free, and bigger size to display bigger font).
    - If no improvements, I'm gonna see an ophthalmologist and see if there is any exercise I could do with my eyes to release the problem (I'm not sure if there is smth to release actually).
    - If no improvements, I will try wearing glasses (to correct my astigmatism, and also to filter blue light etc).
    - If no improvements...well, I don't know, but I'll continue to fight, to get my vision and brain back.

    I'll give some updates here. Thank you all for sharing your experience.

      10 days later

      hey everybody. As I already explainend in many different threads here, I suffer from the same things as you and also have nearly the same same history MagnuM

      Long Story Short:

      I got New Glasses with perfect corrigation of complicated astigmatism two months ago and I'm still not really used to it. It's always a bit stressful for my eyes. However they were really expensive. I furhter try them out, but binocular vision has improved pretty much.

      New work with Nvidia Quadro and two DellU2412M. Not as bad as Intel graphics, but still strainy for the eyes and its getting worse every day. Tried already out f.lux und different settings.

      Are there any news about dithering?

      Have somebody of you tried out 4k Screen? This is the last thing I haven't tried out and different people told, that they were strainfree with new apple macbooks and retina display.

      Finally how do you feel when you are going home from work? In my case nature and the "reality" seems to have to less contrast. Sounds weird and is diffucult to explain.

      • JTL replied to this.
      • JTL likes this.

          JTL

          so you are strainfree on new macbook and retina?

          • JTL replied to this.

              Harrison Well I have the 2015 Macbook Pro with AMD graphics

              Works fine for me

              and I did try a Intel HD 3000 based laptop over HDMI to my BenQ monitor and might have seen a bit of dithering with some strain I do not get on my Macbook.

                is your mentionend benq full hd or 4k?

                • JTL replied to this.

                  Harrison Only 1080p (XL2720Z)

                  I am looking to buy a 4K monitor though (would like to try some in a store first if the store lights wouldn't bother me)

                      JTL

                      Ok. Let us know if eyestrain is gone with such a monitor.

                      • JTL replied to this.

                          Harrison My friend has this Samsung 28-inch 4K monitor (is a TN panel) but it supports up to 10-bit color depth without dithering. He uses it for CAD work.

                          Might ask him if I can try it

                              JTL

                              That would be great if you can do that.

                              Yeah. You're of course right. There is no option instead of trial and error.

                                5 days later

                                OF course it depends on the person in question, but my opinion is that people are putting too much faith in the flicker free / non dithering solutions. While I totally get that may be a solution for some, I'm pretty sure the main driver for most of the problems is the blueish led light.

                                I too have a little bit of astigmatism, and as much as I try, for how long I try the end result is the same: although I do see slightly better, they give me nausea, even if I insist on using them several weeks in a row. I have problems with any kinds of glasses, even with standard sunglasses -- they give me nausea and eye strain. I'm light sensitive in general, as I suspect a lot of people that here complain about led lights must be. It's just that computer displays are so much aggressive in the eyes than general light.

                                I for some reason don't like kindles, I think that the font is not very clear and that gives me headaches but I remain unsure. On a similar note, I had trouble with Ubuntu's font until I shut anti aliasing off.

                                  __528491__ Dithering, PWM, subpixel rendering.. I think many focus on these things because they're under our control, and while eliminating issues with them may not solve the problem, sometimes it can make enough of a difference to save someone's career.

                                  Fancy lens tints are certainly evolving quickly. There is some hope there.

                                  As for glasses, I also can not stand any lenses that have a cylindrical correction (for astigmatism). I can use reading glasses (spherical correction) without discomfort and they helped me a lot. Corrections for minor astigmatism are really just to make things "sharp" and everything looks better while using it, but it doesn't really improve legibility a whole lot.

                                    I again want to stress that for some LED sufferers out there, PWM may not be your enemy. Several PWM-free monitors are rolling out in our offices, and they kill my eyes/brain within minutes or even seconds. I've been writing down some of the model numbers that have this effect on me:

                                    • Dell P1913
                                    • Dell U2413
                                    • Dell U2713H

                                    I want to point out that there is nothing inherently wrong with these monitors, as people are using them 8 hours a day, every day, without complaining. The problem is obviously a sensitivity or "allergy" of some sort of the way the monitor displays the picture, but I have not been able to find out the actual cause or solution.

                                    I was working with a colleague that had the Dell U2413 yesterday, and I can feel my eyes cramping very early on. For most of the day I had to work with them. By the end of the day, my head was splitting so bad I could barely think, nor even write a comprehensive email (spelling mistakes, word replacements, etc). The rest of the night, and even trying to sleep was pretty rough, and even the next day without any new exposure, I still sort of feel a sort of "camera flash afterimage" seemingly superimposed over everything.

                                    What worries me is halfway through the day yesterday, I tried to mitigate the effects by putting on a pair of yellow-tinted "BluTech Lenses" unfortunately it looks like it was a false sense of security. A couple of weeks ago I saw a neuro-ophthalmologist that I could tell didn't know what was causing my issue, but did suggest (by advice of some of his industry associates) that the FL-41 tint (rose-colored) has helped some migraine sufferers with similar issues.

                                    I knew something unusual was up when I built a $3,300 gaming rig way back in December 2011 with a brand new Samsung SyncMaster S24A850DW 24" LED monitor. It made me feel like hell within 5 minutes. It sat for a year collecting dust as I reverted back to my old computer and monitor. After a year, I sold the monitor for a filesale, and bought a Dell U2410.

                                    I somehow have the feeling this wretched issue will end my IT career, one way or another. That's a scary thought, as one does not simply change careers overnight, and it was a 13-year-long investment...

                                      12 days later

                                      JTL Yes, one of my not-so-throwaway accounts has this very same nick.

                                        Sorry for the original post above, it was written in my cell phone while at an airport, so I was not perfectly clear at all at some points.

                                        MagnuM Hello. I definitely feel your pain. I'm also a Software Engineer and I share the same fears as you. Regarding a career switch, there would be no advantage at all -- most jobs nowadays will require you to sit your ass in the office in front of a computer anyway so unless you decide to be a lumberjack or get some sort of blue collar work there is not that much to do.

                                        Plus, I totally agree with you. PWM or not, I will feel exactly the same discomfort with a laptop display. But I also believe there are people that are actually sensitive to that.

                                        I'm pretty sure this kind of .. discomfort we feel is not binary. There are manifold degrees and most people either don't have it or have it in small doses. Doses so small they don't even notice or care about. As it stands, that is bad for us, because we sure are a minority. But as the economies develop, we'll get more and more people working in white collar jobs requiring them to sit their asses more often and for longer periods than before. More people will develop these kinds of symptoms, and I'm pretty sure that in the next couple of years, with the introduction of LED lightning pretty much everywhere, a critical threshold of sufferers will be attained which will force further, real investigation into this topic.

                                        Anyway, I bought a 2nd hand HP Pavilion dv6 from 2011 and this is so much softer in my eyes 🙂. But it's interesting, because now I notice that it gives me a very mild headache to use it. I'm pretty sure this was already like this in the past, but as I was not so much aware of the problems of lightning I didn't notice. I also feel a strange sensation in the throat, as if I was having acid reflux. I know I have suffered with this problem for most of my live, but at the time I also had no idea it could be related to my laptop's screen.

                                        PS: I think this forum is a very interesting development in our saga to improve our situations, but I wonder if we couldn't have some way of registering our symptoms / discoveries in a more straightforward way? Having to go through all these posts is counterproductive. It looks like several of us are Software Engineers, so maybe we could think of something else that could complement this forum? I would like to have some way to have different people register all their findings with tags or something, and then we could create some sort of visual graph where we could see it all.

                                        • JTL replied to this.
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