The primary change was a change in mindset. What I learned in the book ("The Way Out") was how to experience the eyestrain/headaches/pains and not be panicked about it while it was happening. Doing this consistently over a series of weeks, eventually made the pain go away. I know it sounds crazy. But I essentially taught my brain "you're ok; this pain isn't needed; I'm safe" and eventually my brain stopped generating the pain while I was at my computer. Again, I know it's sounds crazy, but I'm typing this comfortably now at 9PM at night with no pain after having started my day at 9AM. Of course, I wasn't at the computer all day. I did other things like eating, etc. But I can remember a time, not too long ago, where my headaches after work were so bad that the only relief I could find was just going to sleep for the night and hoping for a better day the next day. I'm hoping these insights can help other folks on this forum as well.
Ccranthon
- Aug 22, 2022
- Joined Jan 17, 2022
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YES! Significantly better. Turns out it had nothing to do with my PC monitor or the LED lights in my house and everything to do with my brain deciding to generate pain even though it shouldn't be.
The most significant help I found was in the work of Dr. Alon Gordon and his book called "The Way Out". You can also listen to the podcast series here, which came out before the book was published: https://www.curablehealth.com/podcast/your-pain.
This talk by Dr. Howard Schubiner (Gordon and Schubiner are colleagues) is also a fantastic introduction to Mind-Body-Syndrome and neuroplasticity: https://youtu.be/0VyH1laOd2M
I'm typing this message right now on a monitor that - just a few months ago - I couldn't stand to look at for more than 10 minutes! And I've now been on it for multiple hours with very little pain.
I'm not completely out of the woods yet. Some of the neural pathways that generated a LOT of pain in the past are still firing a little bit when I'm super stressed out at work, so I still get a headache sometimes as a signal that I need to calm down. But the methods described by Dr. Gordon and Dr. Schubiner have provided me with the most progress I've ever seen in 16 years. It really has been LIFE CHANGING.
If I get a moment this weekend, I'll try to write a bit more on the topic. But do check out the YouTube video and the Podcast when you get a chance!
I just purchased this Oppo light meter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003302809897.html to test my lights. I’m not sure if it’s sensitive enough to test the PWM frequency of a display, but will probably end up trying it.
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Just adding onto this excellent thread. I'd fallen for Philips' marketing and bought their "flicker free" bulbs to relieve my headaches. Since I'm still having headaches, I did some digging and found two documents, which might be the ones @jen found as well.
- Philips bulbs are manufactured by a company called Signify as referenced here
- Signify has a document (here) that, if I'm reading it correctly, attempts to discredit the IEEE1789 flicker standard
That second document was enough to confirm for me that Philips/Signify bulbs aren't really flicker-free at all. (Why try to get around a published standard if you're compliant?)
Per this thread, I bought a 6-pack of Waveform bulbs last weekend. Excited for them to arrive. Will report back on how they work out.
ryans On Windows 11, go to Settings > System > Display. In the "Brightness & Color" section, you should see a setting for "Color Profile". That menu (at least for me) contains two options: Enhanced | sRGB. (By default it was set to "Enhanced".)
My current setup is a Surface Book 3 running Windows 11 with no external monitors (since all of them seem to give me issues). When I did have external monitors, I believe I had to use the Color Management tool from the old Control Panel to apply the sRGB profile to the external monitor. That made the sRGB option appear in "Settings > System > Display" for the external monitor in the same way that it did for the built-in monitor. However, as far as I recall, switching to sRGB didn't make the external monitor any better. So now I'm 100% just using the integrated laptop screen w/ sRGB.
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Age: 43
Occupation: Software Product Manager
Location: Seattle, WAHello from Seattle.
I've been experiencing symptoms from phone and computer use since about 2003 or so - which spans the vast majority of my adult life. For the first half of that time, the symptoms would come and go and they were manageable for the most part. I would have a couple of bad weeks and then things would go back to normal - almost like an extended remission of sorts. However, over the last few years, it has been a constant battle. My primary symptoms have been headaches, fatigue, and brain fog.
I've tried a variety of things over the years. My neurologist put me on Topamax (Topiramate) and that worked for a while, but I didn't like the side effects. Then, years later, when I decided to try it again, it no longer worked. The same doctor suggested 400mg of B2 (Riboflavin) per day and that worked wonders for a couple of years (if I have my timeline correct). But it no longer works for me. I've also tried countless other supplements (e.g. Magnesium Citrate; SAM-E) with varying degrees of success, but nothing seems to work anymore.
One thing that gave me hope: in March 2021 I had a full 4 weeks without a headache, even though I was working a full day at the computer, every day. The headaches did come back, but that pain-free month was the boost I needed to keep going. Leading up to that point of remission I had done a few things. I'm not sure which, if any, are causal:
- I'd started an intermittent fasting regimen with a mix of 16-hour, 20-hour, and sometimes 36-hour fasts. That was from about January - March. (I used Dr. Jason Fung's book "The Complete Guide to Fasting" as my guide.)
- I'd been running on a treadmill for about 30 minutes a day, every morning for several weeks.
- I had a 1-week vacation from work, where I hadn't used my laptop at all. (And, presumably I wasn't as stressed out about work, presentations, deadlines, etc.)
- I bought a grounding mat to stand on while also unplugging my standing desk from the wall (with the theory that the voltage from the PC and the desk were affecting me in some way). Note: I'm not sure grounding is actually safe, so I've stopped that practice!
- I may have also been doing daily meditation at the time for about 30min/day (but I don't recall; I've been on/off with that practice).
I mention all of the above in case it helps someone else or provides any clues. Unfortunately, my headaches came back after that 4-week window even though I was still fasting and grounding. But it was enough to give me hope that my brain wasn't broken beyond repair! During those 4 weeks I also noticed a significant increase in energy, spatial reckoning (I could get around the city more easily even without Google Maps), and crazy increases in memory/recall.
So that was my story up until then - increasingly bad headaches, fog, etc. for many, many years… with a breakthrough of 4 pain-free weeks in March 2021. Then the headaches came back with a vengeance. Note that, at this point, I still had no idea what was causing my headaches. My primary theories were: WiFi, Bluetooth, and/or the electromagnetic field generated by the computer when plugged into the wall. (Since the brain is an electric device, I figured maybe some odd interaction was happening.) For whatever reason, I didn't suspect my laptop screen or the lighting in my home / office.
I finally had another breakthrough in November 2021. I went on Google and searched for "<name of my laptop> headaches" and found a bunch of threads where people talked about their laptop screens/configs. That's how I first learned about PWM, dithering, and other related topics. And it's how I found this forum as well. After reading various threads, I immediately turned my laptop's brightness to 100% (to avoid PWM) and changed my color profile in Windows from "Enhanced" to "sRGB" (which maybe reduced dithering? not sure)… but I found immediate relief! Since doing that, I'd say my headaches have gone from a 10 to a 4. But it hasn't been like those glorious 4 weeks back in March 2021. So I'm still on the hunt for solutions.
My next suspect was the LED lighting in my home. I have some really cheap lights that were installed by the previous homeowner. When I record them in SLO-MO on my iPhone they are clearly flickering like crazy -- as in, completely black in alternating video frames. So I need to get those replaced. (Unfortunately, they aren't bulb-based. They're built INTO the fixture and attached to a vaulted ceiling; so not the easiest to replace. But at least it was easy to identify.) For the more traditional fixtures in my home, I purchase some so-called "Flicker Free" bulbs by Philips. And I think that's my mistake. We'll see. When recorded on SLO-MO, they don't appear to flicker, but that could be because they're flickering at a rate that's higher than the FPS of the iPhone, so it appears like steady light when it's not. THIS was the thread on LEDStrain that convinced me to find a true flicker-free bulb. And I'm so thankful for it. It's the reason I decided to create an account. I ordered a 6-pack of Waveform bulbs, per the thread. I'm hopeful they work out as the final piece to the puzzle. Hopefully I'll be back here in a few weeks saying how great they've worked! (Today I'm working with home workspace lights off and my windows open for light until my new flicker-free bulbs arrive.)
When I think about it, flicker makes perfect sense as the root cause of my issues: "disabling" PWM flicker on my laptop definitely helped. Also, over the years, my office buildings likely had a mix of flickering fluorescent lighting and early-generation LED lighting that also flickered - which is likely why I felt so exhausted by midday. (Maybe it's also why I feel sick in IKEA and Target sometimes?) I like it when I can see one root cause that could explain a variety of experiences from over the years. So I'm really hopeful. But, if this "flicker-elimination" path doesn't ultimately work out, I'm glad I found this community and we'll just keep going!