AGI

When we started getting higher resolutions of 2k or 4k they had to quickly find ways to make the buttons, menus and text bigger. That's when they probably started playing with dithering more at the OS level to smooth out any pixel based items that did not scale well. Apple probably established it all with the retina display. Thanks Apple.

I feel like we are better to stick with lower resolutions so we can leave scaling at 100%. Like a 24inch 1080p or 27inch 1080p monitor.

    thorpee Apple probably established it all with the retina display.

    This is anecdotal, but I had no issues with any device, until Apple Retina came out. That started it for me.

    6 days later

    I disagree with the software assessment. My iPad, usable for almost 4 years became unusable around the time iPad OS release version 15. My eyes have the same symptoms that the newer iDevices cause. At first I thought it was hardware only, but now I think it can be both.

    thorpee Apple probably established it all with the retina display. Thanks Apple.

    The first Retina display that came out, though, looked so easy on my eyes. I remember looking at it in Apple stores back in 2013 and wishing I could switch my business Windows laptop to Apple. Now, instead I can tolerate only the new MacBook Air.

      I have experienced eye strain and blurred vision from using my new MacBook Air this past week for work. I can't focus properly on text, the letters go blurry and it stays with me for a while after using the laptop. I have had no issues like these with my (very) old 2010 MacBook Pro.

      What I've done so far, going off what I read here and other places, is lowering the resolution (I could literally feel my eyes relaxing, but it could also be that I'm used to my old MBPs resolution), unchecking the "true tone" option in screen settings and also reduce transparency plus increase contrast. And obviously do all the right things that I do anyway (taking breaks etc).

      Will give it some time to see if it helps things.

        I had problems with eye strain for years, with different computers. It all started 12 years ago when I was working nights on CRT monitor. Later, smartphone screens also bothered me.

        I recently got Macbook Air M1 and I have to say, I'm getting much better. Like advised here on forum, I keep brightness under 50%, turn off true tone and keep room light warm and minimum brightness.

        I feel so much better and I can easily work 8 hours with a few breaks. It saved my life.

          4 months later

          AGI Hi, sorry for replying to an old thread, did your symptoms ease with time?

          • AGI replied to this.
            5 days later

            AGI Wow, your response is a game charger. I'm investigating this issue now for couple of years and it seams like there is enough evidence to support temporal dithering, NOT display issue. Although this would also imply, I'd issue would be solved, your display will not be colour accurate. General rule in of thumb - there are no cheap color accurate screens. If you see someone is offering one (like apple), note it's at the expense of your eyes due to led flickering technique they employ.

            AGI

            The macbook air m1 is also the most confortable laptop for my eyes, the air m2 isn’t confortable. Did try other laptops or smartphones that are confortable for you?

            • AGI replied to this.
            • AGI likes this.
              16 days later

              elililisa Any updates?

              I have the MacBook Air M1 and I'm having the same problem, I might return it for this reason. great performance and eye killer.

              eyestrainsolutions Did try other laptops or smartphones that are confortable for you?

              Hey, sorry, I read only now. I am using a HP ZBook Firefly 15 G7. I recently reinstalled Windows 10 from scratch and upgraded to version 21H2 / OS Build 19044.1889, and it is better than it used to be. I can handle it fine. Earlier I had had Windows updates blocked for 1.5 years but the laptop became problematic when HP customized software sneakily passed through a BIOS upgrade.

              I only tried the MacBook Air M1 in a shop. It looked okay, as the most recent iPhones did. I did not make a move and buy anything. I never tested an M2!

              Anyhow, personal opinion, we all have "different" eyes/brain, so what bothers me may not bother you and vice versa. I do not think there is any device that stands up as problem-free.

                5 days later

                AGI thank you for the reply. I believe a hight number of us can have a solution with current tecnology, but we need a big company to support an expensive study with people that have problems with screens, that will increase chance of sucess for a solution.

                • AGI likes this.
                6 days later

                Hi Folks,

                just want to update on some of the statements made before and actual technical tests that I found in notebook check sources.

                It seams like temporal dithering is not used by apple on new macbooks. The only cause is - PWM backlight flicker. So on macbook air m1 or m2, on lower brightness you will get very high HZ, on higher brightness very low HZ, chose which type of eye strain you prefer 🙂 Generally, there will be no solution. Only real solution - get monitor without CCFL (pwm). I think decent monitors these days do not use it anymore, but please correct me if I'm wrong. (Good means DELL line for example ~300 usd)

                Sources:

                On PWM:

                Apple uses PWM at a very high frequency of 117 kHz for brightness up to about 50% (about 160 cd/m2). Above that, we measure some slight flickering at 60 Hz, but this only shows some very small brightness variations (with or without the charger). Neither should lead to any difficulties for more than very few users.

                Tested Model:

                Macbook air M1

                Source:

                https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-2020-M1-Entry-Review-Apple-M1-CPU-humbles-Intel-and-AMD.508057.0.html

                AND

                Display - An IPS panel without temporal dithering

                We refer you to our review of the basic version for information on the display. In the comments section, we were asked about temporal dithering (it is used to create the illusion of more color depth). So, we examined the IPS panel of the Air M2 with a microscope and created a slow-motion recording with 240 images per second. While we were able to detect temporal dithering, for example, in the current MacBook Pro 16 with the Mini-LED panel in some particular gray color tones, this was neither the case in the old MacBook Air M1 nor in the new MacBook Air M2.

                Temporal Dithering Tested on Macbook air M1, M2

                Source:

                https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-M2-review-The-faster-10-core-GPU-isn-t-worth-it.640427.0.html

                  2 months later

                  Donux In my case there is something that I cannot identify that causes major issues. Last weekend I walked in an electronics department and looked at a few TVs. A couple of minutes. That was enough to trigger eyestrain and neck pain. I still have symptoms 4 days later. A "normal" person would not believe me, but I know some people in this forum do because they face similar problems.

                  The rest to me is red herrings, from posture to stress and even heterophoria. I am seeing three orthoptists and none of them can explain why my eyes are so fragile in certain situations despite the progress I have made with eye exercises. Most people with serious heterophoria issues do not report any of my symptoms.

                  Donux

                  Well I don't know how that is possible, since I use monitor which is PWM free, and I still get eye strain and everything else that follows. I use it with windows PC machine without any issue.

                  What I've been thinking for some time is that for some of us PWM isn't the only problem... I can definitely watch windows longer than macOS. Same for android smartphones... In my opinion there is something related to the OS...

                  dev