Got a GTX 1070 for my desktop. Seems fine and it is quite a fast graphics card 😃 Now off to buy a higher resolution IPS monitor >=27 inch http://i.imgur.com/eNHYs2c.png

I've just upgraded from a Gigabyte 970 G1 Gaming card to a Gigabyte 1070 G1 Gaming model. I'm a bit suspicious as to whether the new card is causing eye strain. Nothing else has changed so I'm trying some back and forth card swaps.

AgentX20 Check the config? I was messing with Display Port / HDMI (unplugging and plugging in during the process) and discovered after plugging the HDMI back in the card has reset to auto and dithering was enabled

Interesting, my previous card had two DVI ports that I used. This one - the 1070 - has three DP, HDMI and one DVI so I have a DP-DVI adaptor to get me the two DVIs I need. Can you elaborate on why/when it might enable dithering and how to determine if it's enabled? What I think I might be seeing is very subtle whatever is going on so I'm very interested in your comments on this. I should add - unlike the OP I'm on Windows.

On Windows temporal dithering should be off by default. Unlike proprietary Linux drivers. Maybe you use another software/game now? The best driver and graphics card won't help if the software is doing unnecessary stuff.

KM It's not on "On" on linux, rather Auto. I suspect the same is for windows If OP is experiencing a possible issue, checking would be wiser then not. AgentX20 Do you have any nvidia-config software?

I'm aware that temporal dithering is off by default on Windows, which is why I've been rather puzzled about my perceived low level eye-strain. It's not a sure-thing 'argh my eyes/head' like what I experienced with an Acer XB271HU recently despite all the flicker-free, low blue light mode, high refresh features. it is possible it is a combination of tiredness and certain games/sims, so I'm still testing things out with the old and new card. Or it could be something to do with having a DP->DVI adaptor. Or maybe the Pascal architecture/drivers do things a little different? Either way I don't know of any Windows tools that will tell me whether dithering is active.

This new GTX 1070 card is DEFINITELY causing headaches, whereas my 970 was OK. Same drivers, same screens. Argh,

On the "Nvidia has dithering disabled" I had a little popup on the "Auto" This is the linux one, but I imagine it follows similar rules for windows. Sort of a "backup plan" for the card. AgentX20 I don't know of windows software for nvidia, but it must be available, any software come with the card? Based on this thread, I see 1 bad for GTX 1070. JTL , is it presenting any issues to you?

I swapped back to my original video card, old drivers and original screen and cables and was still experiencing some of the headaches, although not quite as bad. I've just been to get my eyes checked - and well, it looks like I need glasses from here on out. That means I'll have to reserve judgement on the issues I've reported (many/most LED screens, PWM, CCFL vs LED backlights, stresses over certain video cards etc) until I get those dialled in. I do still expect that LED screens are going to be problematic but I'll be intrigued to see what if any issues follow once I'm used to the glasses. I'll be sure to report back here.

GTX 1070

JTL

degen Yes

Just stating what card model I have exactly for reference purposes.

JTL

degen Also how's it going? Haven't seen you on here in a while.

degen

Plasma (Panasonic ST60) + GTX 970 was my ticket out of the hell I was living. When I got it right I found I could use a PC for hours again. So I started engaging with the world again, and I've hardly stopped to look back, except now. I'm feeling more than a little vulnerable being reliant upon a technology which is no longer in production (plasma, of course) and the possibility (however small) that current or future Nvidia products won't deliver the same kind of results for me. LIterally I want to stockpile old plasma's and 970s.

JTL

degen I have tried Plasma TV's before (some circa 2007-2010 Panasonics) but the flicker seems to bother me. I know @jasonpicard has some Samsung Plasma TV's so I wonder if those flicker too.

Gurm

JTL, it's entirely likely that all Plasmas bother you. All plasmas are a little flickery. It turns out that this type of flickering isn't really something that bothers me (it's similar to an old tube tv, after all) nor is the field-dithering (dancing rows of pixels) something that bothers me. BUT I would imagine that many others are bothered by it, in the same way that I'm bothered by FRC/Temporal.

Good luck!

JTL

Gurm Interesting

KM

Yes, I believe plasmas use temporal dithering to display different colors. I saw them flicker especially when the screen was white. Looked like 50/60 Hz. In any case, pretty low frequency. There's a strong contrast between the different frames (maybe pure black).

Gurm

KM - Plasmas absolutely use temporal dithering but it's a radically different kind which has never bothered me. Modern LCD's use per-pixel temporal dithering, in which each individual pixel is strobed between for example red and blue to make purple (a vast oversimplification). On the plasma, they have entire fields with moving rows of pixels. You'll get two adjacent pixels that will change color inside a subfield. Get close to one displaying different grayscales and you can see the rows of marching pixels almost like a very tiny boardwalk marquee. It happens - in spite of the plasma refresh rate being around 800hz - at about 50-60hz. It was designed that way to maintain compatibility with tube tv's and was never changed. I suspect it's yet another "prevent burn in on the plasma chambers" feature.

I find it acceptable. Perhaps not as acceptable as a good soft CCFL backlight, but acceptable nonetheless. I know others absolutely don't.

degen

I <3 plasma

I make sure to turn off "Pixel Orbiting" and that reduces the flicker somewhat. It's not perfect, but it's the closest I've come to looking at paper.

Makes me wonder how I would react to CRT. My problems started after CRT's were on the way out, and I never thought to check.

BTW I hooked just hooked my 2nd Gen Apple TV to my Panasonic plasma. Eye pain within a couple of minutes. Back to the PC.

JTL

degen Interesting. Will look into that.

AgentX20

I'm absolutely fine with Plasma TVs. Many LED screens are no go.

Monitor wise - old CFL backlights are A-OK and some LED screens (e.g. late 2013 MBPro). Others, including flicker-free low blue IPS screens are no good, and I've tried a VA panel with no success.

And per my comments above - my new 1070 card on an old CFL screen is an absolute NO GO for me. My older 970 and all previous video cards have been A-OK. Even having the 1070 on an OK screen showing the desktop in my peripheral vision is headache inducing.

So no I fear not being able to buy a new TV, monitor OR video card... not a fun prospect. And yes I've had my eyes check and now wear glasses but the problems persist.

Gurm

AgentX20 You aren't alone. Some bad screens are vaguely tolerable, and others kill me if they are even in my peripheral vision. I thought I was crazy for a long time.

Wrightpt1

AgentX20 can I ask which version of the Nvidia 970 you have? Would this be suitable?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSI-GTX-970-Gaming-4G-Graphics-Cards-/332183429025?hash=item4d57acdfa1:g:ySEAAOSwsW9Y3Y9B

AgentX20

Gurm What's unusual here though is that after nigh on 10 years of use I KNOW the screen is OK. This is all about the video card causing such disturbance.

Gurm

AgentX20 There are multiple issues at play with new cards, it's really sad. I have a laptop that when I update to the latest Intel drivers the screen becomes INSTANTLY painful to me. But drop back to the drivers from last fall? It's flawless. There's bullshit happening.

Sunspark

Gurm Which Intel driver? I stopped updating at 4279.

degen

I used to have some test patterns to check for temporal dithering (will look for it today). It would be nice if we could correlate the presence of temporal dithering to different driver version or GPU iterations.

KM

Maybe we would see something when using a strong magnifying glass and a slow motion camera (mode)? Somewhere I read the temporally dithered pixels' colors may flicker/change at 30 Hz, which is pretty slow.

AgentX20

Updating my situation...

I've been using my original Gigabyte G1 Gaming 970 card very happily on my Dell IPS 2407 monitor.

I've tried putting the Gigabyte G1 Gaming 1070 back in my machine (the kids had been using it happily of late), and although it's less 'bad' on my eyes than reported originally, presumably due to driver updates, it's still no good. It leaves me feeling queasy and sorta green round the gills. After I put the 970 back in everything goes back to normal.

Today I've gotten an ASUS Strix 1080 card to trial. My initial tests show it causes the same problems as the 1070 - and leaves me feeling pretty rotten after using it. It's not as bad as some laptops I've tried including my wife's newish Acer/Nvidia 950 system, but it's still not looking very promising. This strongly suggests there's something very different going on in the new Pascal architecture output rendering compared with the previous generation of cards - and these are the first video cards I've found that cause me problems.

Add to that list both sizes of iPad Pro models that had to be sent back to Apple as they too left me feeling 'odd', leaving me on the sorta-OK iPad Air 2/iPhone 6S combo. And, then there's the two new high spec IPS and VA panels I tried and couldn't use, and had to return.

So I'm now resigned to having to give this generation of 10-series Nvidia cards a complete miss (as well as new iPads, and most screens - something that is very difficult to test). For someone in IT and who likes his flight-sims, being stuck on on old CFL backlight screens and last-gen video cards is a very bitter pill to swallow.

I cannot precisely pin down my problem(s). I know PWM can contribute to the effects I experience but there's none active on my screen at high brightness levels (offset in the video card settings). On a problematic screen I had for a time, it had low blue light controls that I tried with no real improvement in symptoms. That same screen had no PWM and very high refresh rates but they didn't help. I've gotten my eyes checked and wear glasses but then I'm OK on some screens and not others, glasses or not so that's seemingly not the root cause. Then there's the 10 series Nvidia cards... that make me wonder - just what is it that they're doing to cause these problems?

degen

Although we can't be sure Nvidia didn't make any deleterious changes between GM204 and GM200, the GTX 980 Ti is similar in performance to the 1070 and is going used for a similar or slightly less price. If you are gaming it's 6 GB of VRAM will handle next-gen console ports and high-res displays much better than the 970.

AgentX20

Yep I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for second hand 908Ti cards, but for the last while they've been rather rare on the second hand market.

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