Hi there again. I wanted to make a (not so) little summary about my ledstrain case. It willl be long, and I´ll try to shorten it as much as possible. But as my story is related to many others in relation to previous health conditions, I would like to name them all, so there´s more information out there (even if we still can´t do a lot with it for now). Because ledstrain seems to have, in many cases, a neurological source, I will focus on that conditions, which in my case include other 4, al related to sensorial issues.

#1: being a kid, I use to feel from time to time some sort of pain under the ribs, both sides, as I was running or doing exercises. Breathing was painful until I stopped exercising, but the pain lingered on. Felt like someone was stabbing me. Later, a similar feeling started to occur in the chest. It could be very painful, and would also move to the ribs. It ached at the heart level, which was nothing funny. After many medical consultations (which involved, of course, a diagnosis of “panic attack” despite I haven´t felt tachycardia, sweating, nausea, shortness of breath, or no other symptoms like that) a doctor concluded that I suffered from either costochondritis, an inflammation of the cartilage that connects a rib to the breastbone, or, more likely, intercostal neuralgia, a condition that causes pain along the nerves located between the ribs. It is still triggered sometimes when I exercise, sometimes if I hit the chest against something, and sometimes there are just no triggers at all. It usually lasts weeks, going on and off. Nothing to do about that.

#2: Again, another form of neuralgia (which, btw, is pain along the distribution of the nerves). After accidentally hitting my head and feeling some headache, I began to suffer from occipital neuralgia, that is, a specific form of headache on the scalp. The symptom is called allodynia, which is described as experiencing pain from stimuli that isn’t normally painful. It feels as if someone is pulling my hair, even if there´s nothing over my head (let alone if someone or something touches it). Again, it is activated when I hit my head, even if it was a light hit. And, again, it might last days or weeks going on and off. I´m able to manage the pain taking a medication with contains acetaminophem (Tylenol), a acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin) and caffeine.

#3 Severe TMJ problems, beginning ten years ago. I won´t describe them in extent; suffice to say that my jaw is shorter than it should be (“malocclusion type 2”). This causes everything else in my head to compensate this problem, including a bad alignment of jaw and teeth. I´m under treatment now, and I´m supposed to undergo ortognatic surgery in a year or so. As this TM disorders (TMD) might affect the trigeminal nerve, which basically goes along all the face, it might be related to (and even trigger, or at least aggravate) some of my conditions. A lot of people here have TMD, as it is shown in a large post initiated by @Harrison on on. I also live with constant back (cervical, dorsal, and lumbar) pain, which might be a consequence of the TMD.

#4 Hyperacusis. Again, triggered by a specific event (a exposure to a loud noise). If you are not familiarized with this condition, it can be said that it basically consist in a dimished tolerance to everyday sounds (which can worsen the condition if they are louder than you can tolerate) of neurological origin, which cause many ugly simptoms that I won´t describe here. If any of this rings a bell, you can check here for basic info https://hyperacusis.net/what-is-hyperacusis/4-types-of-sound-sensitivity/ and here https://www.healthline.com/health/hyperacusis#symptoms. Beware: there´s still a lot of inaccurate information out there).

#5 Lastly, eyestrain (yes, my life is permanent joy). I will go with a little more detail here. Again, it was triggered by a specific event: a long work journey with my computer (see the pattern here? Head hit leads to neuralgia, noise exposure leads to hyperacusis, long led screen exposure leads to eyestrain, all chronic neurological conditions which improve avoiding the triggers and get worse by exposing to them… and yet, neurologists don´t know what to do with me). Unlike many of you, I don´t fell any nausea, or headache, or migraine. My eyes just get tired as if I´ve working with my computer for 12 hours… after only 2 minutes with a white color background. If I don´t stop using the computer, it also hurts, and the symptoms last longer, even days, where I need to avoid all screens. Sunlight, and specifically sunlight reflection, causes the same symptoms. If I move my eyes to the sides, in an attempt to look at something without moving the head, I also get eye pain. I do have a tendency to “underblink”, if you will… dry eyes, that is. But eyedrops didn´t improve my symptoms. Leaving that aside, all medical tests showed normal results.

Regarding screens, there seems to be no difference at all. The brighter and whiter, the worse it gets for me.

*My problems seem not to be (mainly) related with:

-temporal dithering, PWM flickering, or low refresh rates: I bought a Dasung e-ink screen, and while it helps a lot, I have problems with it too. It is true that the refresh rate is lower (40hz) than the average LCD screens, but sometimes I´m able to use it for hours before I get eyestrain. Fun fact: I can read without any problems from my kindle, also an e-ink device. Yet, the issue is not related to the refresh rate. More on that later.

-Windows 10: I have the same problems with my android smartphone or TVs of any kind, so I don´t think W10 drivers are a problem here.

-HDMI vs SVGA connections: make no difference in relation to built-in screens.

-different types of incandescent bulbs: also don´t make any difference. I have no problem with the light bulbs, at least directly, if I don´t stare at them (but who’s comfortable doing that, anyway). However, I try to avoid the light hitting directly my eyes.

*Let me tell you now the things that I have tried and didn´t work:

-dark mode. Helps a little bit, but not enough. Instead of getting eyestrain after 2 minutes using a white color background, I might get 5 to 10 if I´m lucky. Other background colors also help a little bit.

-Eye protection software: Iris also helps in health mode, which significantly diminishes blue light. Might give me some more tolerance, but it´s not a dealbreaker. Haven´t tried f.lux, because Iris looked more promising. If you are using f.lux, Iris is worth a try.

-blue blocking glasses: made the problem worse when I used them. I thought I was just undergoing through an adaptation period, and used them initially to read paper books during weeks. But they triggered the same symptoms as if I was reading from a screen.

-FL 41 glasses: I bought a Theraspecs model, pink tinted. Same result.

-SSRIs: I have been using venlafaxine, which seems to improve some neurological conditions, for a year now. 75 mg at first, then 150mg. No results at all. I´m about to quit.

-A new neuro-ophthalmologist (I don´t keep track anymore of how many doctors from different specialities I have visited in the last 3 years) put me on lamotrigine, used for visual snow. I´m not yet in an useful dosis (it is upscaled incrementally). I don´t expect much from it, but I´m open to anything. I will know in some weeks.

+Things that I havent´t tried yet:

-Generic screen drivers, as I learned here that Intel ones seem to affect some people. I don’t think it will help, but it is literally costless to try.

-Irlen filters. But I guess the logic is the same as wearing glasses with coloured filters, which would probably have better results. More on that later.

 

+Things that are working:

-sunglasses in the outside. I have no problem with sunglare (with a few exceptions), which destroy my eyes even inside my house (the reflection of the sun in the white paint of the building next to me simply kills my eyes).

-I´m trying a new approach with the Dasung, which seems to be working so far (fingerscrossed): I realized this week that, if I use it directly under a light bulb, I get worst in a few minutes. If that light hits the screen from further, it gets a little better. Also, under natural light (filtered by sunscreen roll up curtains), I get a lot more working time before eyestrain hits, although it does at some point. So I figured the problem is not the screen itself, but the light reflecting on it. Specially, because it isn´t exactly a matte screen. With this in mind, I rearranged the working desk in a specific way. Sitting with the light hitting the screen wasn´t working, and the other way around means me facing the sunlight: bad idea. But if I sit not in front and not against, but with the sunlight hitting my side, it does not impact directly on the screen. However, the light hits me from a side. Covering my head with a cap appears to the trick for me… so far. It´s been only 2 days, and I´m still waiting for the thing to fail… not because I´m intrinsically pessimistic, but because everything else has failed so far… we´ll see. In any case, it is working better than before, so that´s already a good result. Worth a try if you have problems with e-ink screens.

+A new thing that might work:

-Yesterday I attended a glass filter test in an optic. I have tried many filters against bulbs and screens, and there was one that apparently work (and I say apparently because... well, sometimes I have a better day and I can work longer with an lcd screen. But I was using one for half an hour, which is usually enough to destroy my eyes even in the best of days, and with the filter on, nothing happened). More on that later, if you want (I won´t receive the glasses until the end of next month). Curious fact: the filter is blue tinted. Yes, I saw everything a little bluer. One would say that, because using blue filters on my pc and smartphone helps a little bit, blue would be the first color to discard. Makes no sense, but this is what happens to me.

Another fun fact that doesn´t seem to affect anyone here, or at least I missed it: if I´m not strained, I can watch videos for hours in the very screen where I can´t read more than 5 minutes, no matter what setup I use. At some point I get eyestrain, sure, but it might be 3, 4 or more hours. Again, makes no sense at all. In a bigger screen, however, I have less tolerance, which does make some sense. Furthermore: even in my own screen, I need to have the Iris filter activated, specially for reading subtitles in bright white (I guess I could change the subtitle colour if I´m using VLC, but I would probably find the rest of the image too bright for me). But even under that conditions… it´s weird. Yeah, everything that happens to us is weird, but this is just… weirder.

So, that´s it for me. I don´t know what to do with all that (It seems no one does), but, to me, everything has to be connected somehow. Some of my senses seem to be overstimulated, probably dut to some kind of neurological malfunction. Which one, no one knows. Maybe I won´t see that figured out ever; maybe I will. But, in the meantime, sharing information might be worth it, if only to learn better ways to deal with it.

Thanks for reading,

N

 

    Hello again!
    I read your post and now I'm wondering if your symptoms can be connected to my problem X. I never posted all the data I collected here (yet).
    This is my story, I posted it here before.
    In brief, I have severe troubles mostly with modern smartphones no matter the screen type. They break my convergence, and I see colors on the display as eye piercing, like I am looking at a wielding. I am not dithering flicker sensitive, I worked with no problems with MacBook Pro 2017 and 2018 with all the latest updates. Neither I am PWM flicker sensitive, my last safe phone has 240 Hz flicker. I checked my reaction to PWM and found out that software that increases PWM frequency somehow makes things slightly worse. I also have a lot of flickering light bulbs and LEDs and have no problems with them.
    It started with a purchase of a new device and is always connected strictly to a particular screen.
    After I look at the screen, few things happen immediately, within 1-2 seconds:

    1. I feel pressure around eyes, presumably in eye muscles
    2. My convergence "breaks" immediately and I have troubles focusing far
    3. I see this wielding effect and after a month or two I started to see white veil above the bad screen.
    4. New little red blood vessels appear on the eye surface
      If I look for long enough, I will also get a super increased light sensitivity.

    I found that this problem was present for a long time and started with LCD or maybe even earlier, but I am not sure. But it wasn't everywhere until 2016-2017. Since then it occupied every decent smartphone and many other screens.
    I have no neurological problems (except for a boring common migraine and bad screen can't trigger it no matter what). I have never had any problems with my eyes. I am not flicker sensitive. I was in complete shock with all this, but found out I am not alone. My reaction is super severe even among those who suffer from this problem.

    I do not know though how the blue blocking glasses made things worse though. That is a mystery and an interesting one.
    I think your reaction to glares might be a clue.

    Nick83 light reflecting on it

    This. This. Could you please tell more about the light reflecting on it? Might be helpful. I am asking it not because of glares but because there could be some layers in the screen that affect the light.

    Nick83 if I´m not strained, I can watch videos for hours in the very screen where I can´t read more than 5 minutes, no matter what setup I use. At some point I get eyestrain, sure, but it might be 3, 4 or more hours. Again, makes no sense at all

    This part is curious. What triggers your eyestrain, this specific screen, another screen and later you can't use this screen, or something else entirely?

          Mrak0020

          Mrak0020 After I look at the screen, few things happen immediately, within 1-2 seconds:
          I feel pressure around eyes, presumably in eye muscles
          My convergence "breaks" immediately and I have troubles focusing far
          I see this wielding effect and after a month or two I started to see white veil above the bad screen.
          New little red blood vessels appear on the eye surface
          If I look for long enough, I will also get a super increased light sensitivity.

          Nothing of that happens to me, except the light sensitivity increases the more I look. Sounds less a neurological problem than a "physical" one (as if neurons were not a physical thing, which is not what I meant), but what do I know… I only get eyestrain and, later, retroocular pain, which can last hours or days, depending on the exposure time. But that´s it.

          Mrak0020 I do not know though how the blue blocking glasses made things worse though. That is a mystery and an interesting one.
          I think your reaction to glares might be a clue.

          Yes, probably. I can´t wear a blue filter on glasses, but I wear sunglasses with no problem. That might help with the glare on the e-ink screen - except I need some sort of illumination on it. And wearing sunglasses inside the house is probably not a good idea, but then, again…

          Mrak0020 This. This. Could you please tell more about the light reflecting on it? Might be helpful. I am asking it not because of glares but because there could be some layers in the screen that affect the light.

          I think it´s just the glare, but I´m not sure. I´m still trying to figure it out. It´s actually a combination of the layers of the screen and the type of glare, I think. I can read my kindle under any kind of illumination (well, probably not under direct sunlight), including a light bulb pointing directly at it. But I can´t do that with the Dasung. And both are e-ink screens. Even more: the Kindle is whiter, and reflects more of the sunlight. But they are probably built with different materials, and the glare is different. All I know is that if sunlight hits directly the Dasung screen, I´m toasted (but much better than with lcd screens). If it doesn´t, I might have a chance (if I find some position where sunlight doen´t hit muy own eyes). Still trying.

          To me, it´s probably pointless to know which materials are better of worse, because the offer of e-ink screens is little. It´s all trial and error here. But that´s not the case with the specific screen that hurts you. It might be useful to know as much as possible about it. All I can advice you is to try looking at it from different positions in relation to the light source, whether it´s natural or artificial, and see what happens. If nothing happens, then it´s not the glare, but the screen itself. Same for the smartphones.

          Mrak0020 This part is curious. What triggers your eyestrain, this specific screen, another screen and later you can't use this screen, or something else entirely?

          Every screen triggers my eyestrain, except for the Kindle. I´m trying to find my way with the Dasung. All LCD screens are bad for me, in different grades: dark mode, Iris software, and so on, buy me some more time, but that´s it. I used my laptop 1 hour ago, had a little eyestrain, got away from it, thought I had recovered. Now I´m using the Dasung in the new position, and eyestrain is back. It somehow weakens my eyes for lighter tasks. Same with videos. If I don´t use my LCD, and start watching videos, it´s all good for hours and hours. If I use the LCD screen before and get some eyestrain, no videos for me: the eyestrain goes on and gets worse. Same if sunglare hit me: once I got strained, I need some time to recover, even to do things that don´t get me a lot of eyestrain. Weird, I know. I can´t make a lot of sense from it. My eyes just weaken, and that´s it.

                    Thank you for a detailed answer! As my problem X is connected presumably to light, but not to flicker, I am eagerly searching for all the possible clues.
                    Glares for me are very interesting clue.
                    Also I have a hypothesis that the source of light have little to do with my problem, but the qualities of light rays are the key. In LCD screen, light from a backlight goes through a lot of layers. Maybe one or couple of them are the source of my problem. But that is a hypothesis.
                    A person who has my kind of problem once saw a e-book that caused him an eyestrain. I can't check what was the exact reason, but I know for sure that he is not flicker sensitive, so that particular e-book could also be doing something to light. I doubt I will research that any time soon, but I keep this interesting fact in my memory.
                    So whatever kind of glare your Dasung makes, that is an interesting one.
                    I also noticed that modern phones have very unpleasant glare, it is more unpleasant than a lamp reflected in mirror. I do not know if that is a coincidence or not, as I can't pinpoint the exact source of my problem. I also have a suspicion that screen reflects light not only with a top glass layer, but with deeper layers.
                    I also noticed that, while I am having troubles with a plethora of different lights, glares and light sources right now (temporarily, after prolonged screen exposure), one of the most unpleasant things is a glare from textured metal, when light is scattered and you can't focus.

                    Have you tried checking your convergence with the brock string? This week I had weird eyestrains once even leading to sort-of-migrainish pain behind my eyes after using my safe screen. I checked my eyes with the brock string and found out that my eyes were literally jumping all the time, and I didn't notice it without this test. Probably eye muscles and accommodation were severely overworking. It seem it was somehow triggered by light from the screen and focusing on the screen. While I am not healed yet, my condition slightly resembles yours. (I was using a bad screen for a few weeks extensively and here is the result).

                      I'm new on the forum here and just discovering everything gradually before I post about my experience, but this from your post caught my eye:

                      "Another fun fact that doesn´t seem to affect anyone here, or at least I missed it: if I´m not strained, I can watch videos for hours in the very screen where I can´t read more than 5 minutes, no matter what setup I use. At some point I get eyestrain, sure, but it might be 3, 4 or more hours."

                      Later you write: "If I don´t use my LCD, and start watching videos, it´s all good for hours and hours. If I use the LCD screen before and get some eyestrain, no videos for me: the eyestrain goes on and gets worse."

                      The really curious thing for me is that I am also able to watch videos indefinitely -- for hours -- on the same screen that causes me problems if I'm using it for anything else. In contrast to you, though, I don't get any problems after 3 or 4 hours (although I probably haven't tried watching videos or movies for that long in one go, come to think of it!), and if I have used a screen before and gotten some symptoms, I haven't noticed this affecting my ability to watch video without further problems. Otherwise it is interesting that we share this ability to watch videos/movies for hours whereas we can get problems doing anything else on the same screen after a very short time.

                      It might be worth mentioning that my symptoms seem to be different from yours: I don't get any eyestrain that I notice, rather I get brain fog, it is as if my brain turns to putty, and this negatively affects my ability to think clearly, my sense of orientation, the vivacity of my senses and consciousness, my ability to interact smoothly with other people, etc. I get "zombified."

                      I've been very puzzled about my ability to watch videos indefinitely on screens that otherwise fry my brain.

                      Does anyone else experience this?

                        daniels Hi!
                        Yep, I've heard it before. I've met a young lady who has presumably similar problem to mine. She never thought about it, she just told me as a matter of fact that she can use her latest phone for videos, but when she's trying to read there, her eyes turn red instantly.
                        Few things that come to mind about videos:

                        • image changes constantly, no light that comes continuously from one point to you eyes
                        • no need to focus on small details, like letters or buttons, eyes scan all the screen

                        About you brain fog: Jen created an amazing website and she found some information about neural system that might be connected to your symptoms: https://www.flickersense.org/survey-of-led-sensitivity/discussion#h.yg8w9gafbx7d
                        Notice that she started her research tying all the causes to flickering (that might be not the case) and to single way of influence (that might be also not the case). So while everything is a hypothesis, it is most definitely worth reading.

                        I would also recommend you to test yourself with a Brock string. I do not think that BVD may cause all of this (in most cases) and I also found a clear fact that bad screen affects my binocular vision, not vice versa. As troubles with focusing and accommodation may also cause a lot of unpleasant symptoms and feelings, I would check binocular vision with brock string before the brain for and when you have it. Especially if you have this distinction between watching videos (less need to focus) and doing everything else (more need to focus).

                        There's also one interesting experiment. Another person who shares my symptoms and who tried disassembling screens, tried this: he removed a top polarizer from an LCD screen, so there was no image on the screen (just like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRZkLK7S-w&loop=0). Without this detail no matter what is in on the screen, you see no image. Everything is just pure white. He looked at the screen and realized that the pressure is still present, but it seems much easier to look at the screen. He felt that his eyes were looking to nowhere. Then he grabbed a random black thread and placed in front of the screen (on top of it? I am not sure how to say it in English). He looked at the thread, his eyes focused there and he felt the usual eyestrain!

                            Mrak0020 Also I have a hypothesis that the source of light have little to do with my problem, but the qualities of light rays are the key. In LCD screen, light from a backlight goes through a lot of layers. Maybe one or couple of them are the source of my problem. But that is a hypothesis.

                            Definitely not my problem, but it can be yours. Have you tried using some sort of screen filter, whether plastic or glass? I´m thinking that, if your problems come from the surface by which the light goes through, the filter might "correct" this output somehow by adding a different layer. Just a wild guess.

                            Mrak0020 A person who has my kind of problem once saw a e-book that caused him an eyestrain. I can't check what was the exact reason, but I know for sure that he is not flicker sensitive, so that particular e-book could also be doing something to light. I doubt I will research that any time soon, but I keep this interesting fact in my memory.
                            So whatever kind of glare your Dasung makes, that is an interesting one.

                            If that person was also sensitive to sunlight, and specially sunlight glare, then it´s probably glare. Or that´s what I think

                            Mrak0020 Have you tried checking your convergence with the brock string? This week I had weird eyestrains once even leading to sort-of-migrainish pain behind my eyes after using my safe screen. I checked my eyes with the brock string and found out that my eyes were literally jumping all the time, and I didn't notice it without this test. Probably eye muscles and accommodation were severely overworking. It seem it was somehow triggered by light from the screen and focusing on the screen. While I am not healed yet, my condition slightly resembles yours. (I was using a bad scree

                            Truth is I haven´t even heard about convergency problems until I found this forum. I gotta get that checked, that´s for sure

                            daniels The really curious thing for me is that I am also able to watch videos indefinitely -- for hours -- on the same screen that causes me problems if I'm using it for anything else.

                            It´s truly annoying. I mean, at least we wan watch videos, but… it just drives me crazy

                            daniels In contrast to you, though, I don't get any problems after 3 or 4 hours (although I probably haven't tried watching videos or movies for that long in one go, come to think of it!), and if I have used a screen before and gotten some symptoms, I haven't noticed this affecting my ability to watch video without further problems.

                            Well, actually, depending on how strained I am at the beggining of the video fest (??), I might be able to watch for more than 4 hours. I did it a few times, but it´s just not something I would normally want to do. Also… I wouldn´t want to try my luck and get eyestrain. But, if I´m not strained before I start, I could probably do it. Again: I need to tune down the blue light a little bit via software.

                            daniels It might be worth mentioning that my symptoms seem to be different from yours: I don't get any eyestrain that I notice, rather I get brain fog, it is as if my brain turns to putty, and this negatively affects my ability to think clearly, my sense of orientation, the vivacity of my senses and consciousness, my ability to interact smoothly with other people, etc. I get "zombified."

                            Ok, many questions: do you experiment these problems only watching LED screens, or also from sunlight, sunglare, bulbs, etc? Does any other stimulus trigger those symptoms? Do you have other health issues? And, lastly: have you consulted a rheumatologist? I just ask because brain fog is usually related to rheumatic conditions, such as arthritis (you would already know if you have it) and fybromalgia (much more tricky to diagnose).

                            Mrak0020 Few things that come to mind about videos:
                            image changes constantly, no light that comes continuously from one point to you eyes

                            But it does… image changes, sure, but it comes from the same place. Even more: it would make a lot more sense that we are annoyed by quick image changes as in videos.

                            Mrak0020 no need to focus on small details, like letters or buttons, eyes scan all the screen

                            I thought the same at first… and then, no. I´m not a native english speaker (as you have probably already guessed by some mistake or another in my writing), so I always watch english language shows with subtitles on. Hence, I´m basically reading most of the time. But, if the blu light filter un-whites the subs a little bit… no problem there. And I have just came to think that if I could use a word processing software with some random video as background (which would magically not interfere with the color contrast in letters), it would be… I don´t know, an interesting experiment?

                            Mrak0020 I would check binocular vision with brock string before the brain for and when you have it. Especially if you have this distinction between watching videos (less need to focus) and doing everything else (more need to focus

                            I will, no doubt. But I raised the point to my neuro ophthalmologist recently, and he just said "you also need to focus when you´re watching a video". I wont´t discuss opthtalmology with an ophtalmologist, it makes no sense. Yet… it´s different somehow what we (I mean, all humans) do when reading vs watching videos. Although it´s also true that I´m reading subtitles the whole time, I'm also scanning the whole screen. Might be the thing the thing that gives me relief from reading… or not. I don´t think that´s it, but in the end, I can´t be sure.

                            Mrak0020 There's also one interesting experiment. Another person who shares my symptoms and who tried disassembling screens, tried this: he removed a top polarizer from an LCD screen, so there was no image on the screen (just like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydRZkLK7S-w&loop=0). Without this detail no matter what is in on the screen, you see no image. Everything is just pure white. He looked at the screen and realized that the pressure is still present, but it seems much easier to look at the screen. He felt that his eyes were looking to nowhere. Then he grabbed a random black thread and placed in front of the screen (on top of it? I am not sure how to say it in English). He looked at the thread, his eyes focused there and he felt the usual eyestrain!

                            It´s weird how it looks all the same, and yet the sources of our eyestrain can be so different. It really seems that, in your case (and his), that´s the source (or one source) of the problem. I would try adding whatever layer I can use in front of the screen. I read recently that some guy succeeded to use LCD screens by simply putting some sort of plastic sleeve over it. I bet (s)he is triggered by the same source as you are.

                                                  Mrak0020

                                                  Mrak0020 Jen created an amazing website and she found some information about neural system that might be connected to your symptoms: https://www.flickersense.org/survey-of-led-sensitivity/discussion#h.yg8w9gafbx7d

                                                  Wow, this is really an amazing job. By reading the second paragraph, I though it wasn´t talking about me: "A preliminary analysis of survey responses shows that respondents sensitive to LED lights and/or screens do not have the photophobia typically experienced by migraine patients, which is sensitivity to the brightness of any light, because respondents are not bothered by sunlight. Rather, their experience of light aversion is specific to the kind of light produced by LED lights or screens. Most survey responses are consistent with flicker, rather than blue light or light brightness…"

                                                  It is quite the opposite for me. But then… "Respondents tend to report multiple symptoms that may include headache, pain in or near the eye, eye muscle pain, dry eye, spatial disorientation, nausea, scalp allodynia (sensitivity to normally innocuous stimuli), concentration and short-term memory problems, sleep abnormalities, anxiety, depression, and various additional symptoms that suggest changes in the nervous system due to sensitization."

                                                  Occipital (scalp) allodynia. That´s it for me. Took me a while to link both conditions, and but here it is. Sure, 2 cases is just anecdotal, it doesn´t prove a thing. And yet…

                                                  Regarding anxiety or depression, I wonder if that´s a cause or a consequence of suffering from eyestrain, definitely a debilitating condition. But that´s not the point. I am bothered by sunlight (so, eyestrain is not only triggered by LEDs), but I definitely don´t suffer from migraines.

                                                  Maybe I´m just sensitive to some wavelenghts, present in sunlight as well as in LEDs. But then again, I can watch videos almost normally.

                                                  Whatever the case, I will read the article and respond the survey, if it´s still active.

                                                        Nick83 Have you tried using some sort of screen filter, whether plastic or glass?

                                                        I tried and that is exactly how I came to conclusion that it is some quality of light. The only thing that helps me (very slightly) is a bunch of TPU screen protectors and/or a bunch of matte ceramic films (and nothing else, no other materials)! I tried every other possible barrier with no result. I use 7 layers above the screen now, and it helps, but phone is still absolutely unusable. Moreover, I am not sure, but it seems that matte film redirects light. While all those matte layers decrease eye pressure, they increase light sensitivity. TPU film layers are glossy so they doesn't do much to light sensitivity, but they alone are not enough to deal with pressure.

                                                        Nick83 image changes, sure, but it comes from the same place. Even more: it would make a lot more sense that we are annoyed by quick image changes as in videos.

                                                        It comes from different pixels, no same pixels are showing you same color/brightness for too long.
                                                        Yep, "annoyed by quick image changes" would make sense, but that is not what happens.

                                                        Nick83 But, if the blu light filter un-whites the subs a little bit… no problem there. And I have just came to think that if I could use a word processing software with some random video as background (which would magically not interfere with the color contrast in letters), it would be… I don´t know, an interesting experiment

                                                        Indeed!

                                                        Nick83 "you also need to focus when you´re watching a video"

                                                        You most definitely need to focus but "focuses" can be different. For example, when I read from my notebook, I usually look "trough" the screen, meanwhile if I want to look to a specific letter, I look "at" the screen.
                                                        I also didn't notice that my eyes were crossing during "eye migraine" before the focal point, until I checked it with the string, so that was also a different kind of focus.

                                                        Nick83 I read recently that some guy succeeded to use LCD screens by simply putting some sort of plastic sleeve over it. I bet (s)he is triggered by the same source as you are

                                                        Yep
                                                        I also suspect that could help slightly with dithering as it hides separate pixels. (And my 7 layers hide a lot of an image 🙂 )

                                                        Nick83 if it´s still active

                                                        It is

                                                                      Mrak0020 It comes from different pixels, no same pixels are showing you same color/brightness for too long.

                                                                      Mrak0020 I tried and that is exactly how I came to conclusion that it it some quality of light. The only thing that helps me (very slightly) is a bunch of TPU screen protectors and/or a bunch of matte ceramic films (and nothing else, no other materials)! I tried every other possible barrier with no result. I use 7 layers above the screen now, and it helps, but phone is still absolutely unusable. Moreover, I am not sure, but it seems that matte film redirects light. While all those matte layers decrease eye pressure, they increase light sensitivity. TPU film is glossy so it doesn't do much to light sensitivity, but they alone are not enough to deal with pressure

                                                                      Too bad. At least you could figure out the problem. Have you tried old phones? The materials of the screen have changed in the last years so they are more resistant to scratches and droppings (as in Gorilla glass, for example). Might be worth a try, even if there´s not much you can do with a paleolitic not-so-smart-phone.

                                                                      Mrak0020 It comes from different pixels, no same pixels are showing you same color/brightness for too long.

                                                                      True. Might be the thing at stake, as weird as it sounds.

                                                                      Mrak0020 You most definitely need to focus but "focuses" can be different. For example, when I read from my notebook, I usually look "trough" the screen, meanwhile if I want to look to a specific letter, I look "at" the screen.
                                                                      I also didn't notice that my eyes were crossing during "eye migraine" before the focal point, until I checked it with the string, so that was also a different kind of focus.

                                                                      Yes, that´s what I had in mind.

                                                                                Nick83 Have you tried old phones?

                                                                                This thing spread widely and became stronger since 2016-2017, so most phones manufactured before that date should be OK. But I want to figure out what went wrong. Gorilla glass has nothing to do with it, it is somewhere deeper.

                                                                                So I'm doing the investigation 🙂

                                                                                BTW you also can try some barrier before Dasung to check how the upper layer reflection affects your eyestrain.

                                                                                    Mrak0020

                                                                                    Mrak0020 This thing spread widely and became stronger since 2016-2017, so most phones manufactured before that date should be OK. But I want to figure out what went wrong. Gorilla glass has nothing to do with it, it is somewhere deeper.

                                                                                    So I'm doing the investigation 🙂

                                                                                    Keep up… and keep us posted.

                                                                                    Mrak0020 BTW you also can try some barrier before Dasung to check how the upper layer reflection affects your eyestrain.

                                                                                    I have. I bought a "Film Supershieldz Macbook Air 13", supposedly matte, which actually lefts one inch of the screen uncovered. No difference. I might try a different brand, or a sleeve, or something like that. But I´m still figuring out if in this particular setup (sunscreen coming not from the fron or the back, but from a side, and light filtering shades) is working. It´s promising so far (not 100%, of course, but I wasn´t expecting that much), so I´m delaying all further experiments a little bit.

                                                                                          "Nick 83: Ok, many questions: do you experiment these problems only watching LED screens, or also from sunlight, sunglare, bulbs, etc? Does any other stimulus trigger those symptoms? Do you have other health issues? And, lastly: have you consulted a rheumatologist? I just ask because brain fog is usually related to rheumatic conditions, such as arthritis (you would already know if you have it) and fybromalgia (much more tricky to diagnose)."

                                                                                          I get no problems whatsoever from any other light source (sunlight, light bulbs of any kind, etc.), and there is no other stimulus that triggers these symptoms. I have no other health issues that I am aware of. Have not consulted a rheumatologist. "Brain fog" might not be the best term to describe my symptoms.

                                                                                          Regarding the ability to watch video on a screen without symptoms: I have also speculated that it might have to do with focus (type of focus), i.e. our eyes focus in a different way while reading something on the screen or browsing the web as opposed to watching a video. One thing I did find out is that our eyes blink much less when we are reading something on a screen compared to normally (and, I expect, compared to when we watch a video). This results in drier eyes, i.e. less tears that might serve a protective function. With my new tablet, a Samsung Galaxy A7, which gives me very bad symptoms when I am doing anything other than watching video on it, I did experiment with intentionally blinking a lot and continuously while I was using it, but this did not prevent the symptoms.

                                                                                          The possible explanation that it is not the same pixel emanating light continuously with the moving image of a video seems to have some plausibility. However in a video, often many parts of the image would seem to remain identical over longer periods: i.e. the background scenery, or the room in which an action is taking place in a movie. But perhaps our eye is drawn to the part that is moving, so we are not focusing on the surrounding parts that are not moving and thus these parts do not cause us symptoms.

                                                                                          The only thing that I found so far that works "curatively" (not preventatively) for my symptoms -- i.e. helps greatly with the symptoms after they have appeared -- is, strangely, to make a paste of baking soda and water and stick it on my forehead and leave it there for a few minutes. I was going to post this elsewhere on the forum after I had read through more posts and become a bit more familiar with people's experiences, reflections, and solutions, but will throw this out here now already with curiosity as to whether this can help others as well.

                                                                                          I am currently trying to get a sense of whether the Dasung Paperlike or the Onyx Boox Mira monitors would be likely to help me without actually trying one of them out first, since where I currently am (New Zealand) I don't appear to have a possibility of trying out either beforehand (the only seller I have found so far that has a return policy is Amazon in the U.S., but this would entail exorbitantly expensive import/customs fees apparently). But it seems that what works for one person may not work for another and that trial and error is the only way.

                                                                                          I would be very interested if we can get to the bottom of the symptom-free video paradox.

                                                                                            daniels

                                                                                            daniels I get no problems whatsoever from any other light source (sunlight, light bulbs of any kind, etc.), and there is no other stimulus that triggers these symptoms.

                                                                                            Ok, so your condition is different to mine. Although, we share this specific… thing, that allows us to watch videos. Weird (but what isn´t, anyway…)

                                                                                            daniels Have not consulted a rheumatologist. "Brain fog" might not be the best term to describe my symptoms.

                                                                                            Well, if that´s what you feel, brain fog it is. Might not be what doctors call "brain fog", but it´s what you´re experimenting in some way. It´s a long shot, but if you can relate to any of this descriptions:

                                                                                            -Fibro fog: A type of cognitive dysfunction reported by many people with fibromyalgia. Also sometimes referred to as brain fog, its symptoms include difficulty with concentration, memory deficits, and confusion.

                                                                                            -Cognitive difficulties. A symptom commonly referred to as "fibro fog" impairs the ability to focus, pay attention and concentrate on mental tasks.

                                                                                            -Memory issues or forgetfulness, Impaired ability to concentrate or stay focused, Decreased alertness, Problems thinking clearly or mental slowness, Difficulty holding a conversation

                                                                                            IF that´s the case, you might want to consult a rheumatologist anyway. As you don´t have any other health conditions, the most probable outcome will be none at all, and you will be referred to some other specialist which you have already consulted, etc, we all noe how this goes. But, who knows…

                                                                                            daniels Regarding the ability to watch video on a screen without symptoms: I have also speculated that it might have to do with focus (type of focus), i.e. our eyes focus in a different way while reading something on the screen or browsing the web as opposed to watching a video. One thing I did find out is that our eyes blink much less when we are reading something on a screen compared to normally (and, I expect, compared to when we watch a video).

                                                                                            I always thoght it could be the case. @"Mrak0020" algo agrees about different forms of focusing causing different results. It has to do something with it

                                                                                            daniels The possible explanation that it is not the same pixel emanating light continuously with the moving image of a video seems to have some plausibility. However in a video, often many parts of the image would seem to remain identical over longer periods: i.e. the background scenery, or the room in which an action is taking place in a movie. But perhaps our eye is drawn to the part that is moving, so we are not focusing on the surrounding parts that are not moving and thus these parts do not cause us symptoms.

                                                                                            Right. As @"Mrak0020" put it, we "scan" the image instead of focusing on a single point.

                                                                                            daniels The only thing that I found so far that works "curatively" (not preventatively) for my symptoms -- i.e. helps greatly with the symptoms after they have appeared -- is, strangely, to make a paste of baking soda and water and stick it on my forehead and leave it there for a few minutes

                                                                                            I can´t help asking you how you ended up with that specific treatment. Why baking soda and not, say… sand (just the first thing that came to mind)

                                                                                                        daniels The only thing that I found so far that works "curatively" (not preventatively) for my symptoms -- i.e. helps greatly with the symptoms after they have appeared -- is, strangely, to make a paste of baking soda and water and stick it on my forehead and leave it there for a few minutes

                                                                                                        Nick83 I can´t help asking you how you ended up with that specific treatment. Why baking soda and not, say… sand (just the first thing that came to mind)

                                                                                                        Thanks for your answer and for your thoughts, much appreciated. As for the baking soda, I actually can't remember how I came up with that, it was at least eight years ago… Salt (I have used sea salt) also helps, though baking soda seems to be best.

                                                                                                        Found two similar complaints (about Xiaomi Mi10T Pro), reposting here:
                                                                                                        "As much as I would like not to do this, I returned the smartphone back to the store.
                                                                                                        Eyes are getting very tired. You read the news and it is as if the text starts to merge. I don’t know how to explain it differently.
                                                                                                        I showed it to a friend, he had the same feeling. As he said, the impression is that you are looking at the TV screen from a very close distance."
                                                                                                        Original post in Russian

                                                                                                        "I bought a device the other day, the same situation with the text - the feeling that the text, solely the text - the video is normal - it is impossible to focus on the letters, they double. On an old 4pro, the eyes are resting, but here you feel how your eyes are straining. By the way, the sensor works perfectly. Tell me who solved this problem, setting up the screen does not solve the problem."
                                                                                                        Original post in Russian

                                                                                                        16 days later

                                                                                                        Hi! Wanted to ask if you managed to find your way with the Dasung? Also, I wonder what was the exact model (if it has a backlight).

                                                                                                        When it comes to screen protectors, for me nothing compares to Skinomi matteskin, especially for the iPhones. It's silicone like and very grainy texture, basically makes my iPhone looking like an old grayish TN monitor with reduced contrast. It does not matter if it's older LCD or latest OLED model, nor the IOS version, as long I have Skinomi, other brands did not work for me.
                                                                                                        PS I have to lower the brightness and reduce the whitepoints indoors, but outside both are back to max.

                                                                                                          a year later

                                                                                                          mazury Skinomi has them for some laptop models
                                                                                                          http://www.skinomi.com/laptops.html

                                                                                                          I have asked support if they sell generic sheets (so I can cut it for my model), but they said they don't plan to do that.
                                                                                                          I have Skinomi on my older 13" Airbook, but could not find one for my newer 16" MBP

                                                                                                          It's a game changer for me for the iPhone, for the laptops don't care as much, since I almost don't use them without external TN monitor.

                                                                                                              dev