A story about eye strain on Ubuntu with Nvidia GT 1030

brjdenis

Hi to all. I would just like to share my story about eye strain with new monitors.

For a long time I have been using an Asus K53E laptop with Windows 7, and a very old computer with Geforce 8400GS and a AG Neovo F-417 monitor running Ubuntu. Both configuration caused me no eye strain at all. I did, however, try to run Linux Mint on the laptop. It turned out that the PWM problem was insurmountable, so I let it go because it didn't matter, I was happy with Windows.

About 6 months ago I decided to put together a new PC and switch to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS altogether. I got two monitors, AOC 24P2C and Viewsonic VG2448, and a Nvidia GT 1030 graphics card with HDMI/DVI outputs. To my surprise I immediately felt eye strain from using both monitors. It was my first time using IPS monitors, this super-duper fancy peace of … the sun. I had to reduce brightness/contrast practically to zero. After a day or two I couldn't use the AOC 24P2C monitor anymore. It was to painful. Viewsonic VG2448 with some adjustments was much better. So for about six months or so I was able to do work on Ubuntu "normally" with the Viewsonic monitor. "Normally" means that I did feel a bit more tired, and going back to my ancient laptop was a relief still.

A couple of weeks ago a kernel update and an update of the Nvidia driver to 510.xx caused heavier eye strain on the Viewsonic monitor. So much that my eyelids were totally dry and the "non-yolk part of the eye" that should be white, was red.

I tried installing older Nvidia drivers, but that didn't help. I tried turning on/off dithering, changing color range etc. I tried with much older graphics card, namely Geforce 8400GS and ATI RV515… the same effect. Perhaps, only the ATI one was slightly better because I was using the VGA input. Changing DVI/HDMI/DisplayPort inputs or using adapters had no effect in general.

I hooked up my old monitor F-417 … ha, no eye strain at all. Go figure. But I didn't want to use that.

So … I removed Ubuntu. And installed Windows 10 because I had a fresh copy that was supposed to go on my laptop. At first, the eye strain did not go away. Installing updates didn't help. What did help was installing the drivers for both monitors. Yeah, I wasn't expecting this, but whoosh most of the eye strain went away. Installing the latest Nvidia driver didn't have much effect. Turning the brightness/contrast way down I can use both monitors "normally" again.

Fin.

ryans

Thanks for sharing. I wonder if the driver installed the ICC color profile for the monitors.

brjdenis

ryans I think you may be right. The viewsonic driver does contain an ICC file.

Sunspark

Copy the icc profile out, then install it in Linux and see how it is.

brjdenis

Sunspark I tried it today, I installed Ubuntu back as dual boot. It didn't work 🙁

Well, maybe in a few years things will change. I still want to use Ubuntu.

ryans

brjdenis The Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL2) has come a long way, for what it's worth. Dev Tools like IntelliJ / VS Code work well with it, too.

Do you have issues with smartphones too or just Windows 10 w/o the drivers?

brjdenis

ryans I don't have any issues with smartphones. It is strange, the viewsonic VG2488 is so much more comfortable for my eyes than AOC 24p2c. On either Ubuntu or Windows. I re-tried it a couple of times recently. I feel like the AOC, even with brightness/contrast set to 0, is burning my eyes. Maybe because the Viewsonic monitor has a TFT IPS display, and this somehow makes it better, I don't know.

brjdenis

Hi there, folks.

Another update. I recently got a new GPU, Nvidia Quadro T600. The effect was the same: couldn't use Ubuntu, but was OK-ish on Windows 10 (still the same monitor VG2448).

I read on this forum that some have experimented with VGA instead of HDMI/DP/DVI. My monitor has a VGA port, so I decided to give it a try. I used a DisplayPort->VGA adapter on my GPU and hooked up my monitor. Holy moly, eye strain is gone! Sure, the image is not so digitally perfect as it would be with DP, but it is not really bad. I mean, I am not bleeding from my eyes anymore. I put brightness to 100% and made eye contact with a pixels and didn't spray any blood.

I think I am going to buy a couple of monitors with VGA inputs and a couple of adapters for the future. I have 40 years of life ahead of me, so I best make a small stash of things that work.

Azhursh

brjdenis Damn it I wish that happened to me with an old computer I had. The monitor was not "good" but it was eyestrain free on windows and It was VGA. The results on Linux are completely different. I could not stay 15 mins on the screen because the eyestrain would hurt my eyes.

I had a nvidia 9500gt and I tested every distro, display server, fonts, and weird driver setting I could.

brjdenis

Azhursh

I wish I could tell you more. I have tried so many things, I even wasted money to solve this, but without reliable results. Only this VGA thing works good enough.

What bothers me the most is how some people have such problems with monitors nowadays, and other people and companies simply do not understand it (us). You mostly get recommendations such as "use flux o'matic" etc. But the problem is very real, not only on Linux, but on Window also. And has nothing to do with colors, but with something else.

When I read monitor reviews I cringe every time I see "go with IPS, it is better". Well it seems to me that this is a partial lie. It may be better for viewing angles, but not when it comes to eye comfort for some people. I regret buying IPS monitors. I intend to replace them with TN monitors when I save enough money. Will see if it makes things better.

Some additional things from my voyage so far:

Installing Nvidia drivers from the download page is better than installing them from Nvidia Experience (windows). Don't know why, but it has an influence on eye strain. When replacing GPU always reinstall graphics drivers (clean installation).
Using HDMI is better than DisplayPort. Less eye strain.
Using Limited Range of colors is better than Full Range of colors. Less strain.
IPS monitors are more frequently reported as causing eye strain than TN monitors. Both my previous monitors were TN monitors with W-LED and PWM. No eye strain at all.
On the other hand, some IPS monitors with Nvidia GPU work well.
FRC or 8/10 bit screens have equal chances of causing eye strain.
High brightness output of the monitor is a scam. We use light bulbs for illumination. Anything over 250 cd/m2, or perhaps even over 200, is not needed in reality for normal users.
Glossy/Matte surface of the panel may have an effect on eye strain. The eye strain that is reported with glossy monitors is not the same as what most people experience from problematic IPS screens (see below).
In some case it was reported that the GPU caused eye strain.

None of the following solves the problem:

Taking breaks. Honestly, how can you work and take a break every 5 minutes?
Using software to change the colors.
Using non-tainted glasses.
Exercising with eyelids. Please, do not make me laugh…
etc etc

Buying a monitor seems like that scene from South Park with City Airlines: "Thank you for flying City Airlines. We know you have a choice in airlines. And it looks like you've made the wrong one."

Eye strain as I experience it can be defined like this:

After a few minutes of watching the screen I feel my eyelids are getting dry, sticky and a bit sore. After a few additional minutes, I feel stinging when opening and closing the eyelids, particularly in the inner corner of the eye. After some more time or after more constant use my eyelids get inflamed and the eye becomes red. The inflammation is on the outside of the eyelid and on the inside. We are talking about chronic effects of the screen. This is not nausea! Nausea is mostly caused by flashing, like PWM modulation. Nor is it tearing. It is more like drying out.

Azhursh

brjdenis I see you can identify different things that change the level of strain in your eyes. In my case anything that runs Linux blast my eyes.

The only time I felt less eye strain was with a old dell monitor in a computer lab.

In my case I need IPS because I work with design an that kind of stuff so color accuracy is a must for me.

brjdenis

Hi again,

Some news. I recently purchased an old monitor Dell U2413 because I use something similar at work (U3014). The monitor at work causes absolutely no problems to my eyes. My work computer has a Nvidia K620 GPU and the monitor is running on DisplayPort cable. I figured I would search for a similar monitor but 24 inch. So I purchased a used U2413. The difference between U2413 and U3014 seems to be only the panel color depth. The U3014 is using 10bit and the U2413 is using 8bit+frc. Both panels are AH-IPS with GB-r LED backlight.

Anyway, on Windows 10 I don't have the red eye problem anymore. On Linux this combination works: Nvidia Quadro T600 + Dell U2413 + DVI + Nvidia drivers.

I am, however, very confused. I tried the displayport connection first. On Windows there was no problem, but on Linux it seemed that although I would get less eye discomfort, I did feel slight tingling in my eyes. Then I switched to DVI cable and the tingling was gone. I wish I knew what is going on. Maybe Linux developers should start using newer monitors and connections, maybe then they would stumble upon the same problem themselves and perhaps solve it.

hayder1983

Hi. Thanks for sharing. Are you still using monitors with VGA input? Is the Dell U2413 better than the VGA monitor before? Why not keep the old one?!

brjdenis

hayder1983

Hi, I am no longer using VGA on the ViewSonic monitor, nor am I using that monitor anymore. I am still using F-417 on VGA, but that is not my main monitor. I would say that for Ubuntu the ViewSonic on VGA was equally good as Dell U2413 on DVI, except that DVI has a better picture. From what I can tell, HDMI is good for the eyes as well, but I didn't have time to test it. I am using the Dell monitor at 8 bit per channel because that way I shouldn't be using FRC.

I hope this 10+ year old monitor lasts till I retire…

hayder1983

Do you have a setting for RGB Full/limited on your U2413? Most of what you write sounds like a problem with peak brightness. Via HDMI you can change this in the driver and some(not all) monitors you can also change it in the monitor.

brjdenis

hayder1983

On U2413 I use Full RGB. I can't change it on the monitor, but I could set it to Limited in the Nvidia control panel if I use HDMI. But Full RGB is ok for my eyes. But, as I said I use DVI on Ubuntu which makes my eyes feel ok. I really hope this lasts a long time.

In general, what I found is that setting range to Limited does help a lot! Previously, with ViewSonic monitor, I used HDMI with Limited RGB and the relief on the eyes was instant. So I can confirm what you mentioned. Limited helps a lot. If you can do with a whiter image.

But I don't know anymore what is going on. In the last two years I purchased 4 monitors and returned 3, 4 Nvidia graphics cards (2 different GT 1030, GT 730, Quadro T600), a bucket full of cables and adapters … I can't believe how much money I wasted just to be able to look at the screen. I tried so many combinations but still I cannot say what is going on. I can't even give solid advice to people with the same problem. I used to think that TN monitors would help. But they don't! Then that older Nvidia GPU would help. Well, I don't really know. I have a very old 8400 GS and on DVI I get the same result as on Quadro T600 with a mDP->DVI adapter. Both on Ubuntu and Windows 10. A very old ATI FireGL also didn't make a difference.

hayder1983

brjdenis In June i changed my setup, i was able to do everything for 10-14 hours at my old setup, now i am happy to do my work for 8 hours without super hard pain. I have now 4 monitors, but it all didnt help. Getting back my old GPU back is impossible and buying a "new old" is super expensive for some reason(200+€ for old GPUs…). I used an old AMD card, which was super ok in combination with my 14 y old LG TN Panel(contrast setting was low).

New monitors are so superbright in peak. White is like a knife in my eyes. Old monitor is giving me nausea but it white is much smoother. I chose the new monitor, because nausea is even worse for me than eye pain. I now with the help of what i learned on this forum able to work 8h and watch TV again(RGB limited, super resolution). My worklaptop is usable even without these workarounds.

I think manufacterers may do some stuff, that is stressful to the eyes, but they dont know it is stressful, like compression of videosignals or agressive dithering. They dont know, because most people wont notice the difference. GPUs are clearly doing something very different than from 5 years ago.

brjdenis

hayder1983

In regard to brightness, I agree that modern monitors are way too bright. The U2413 has 350cd/m2 at 100% brightness and about 120 cd/m2 at 20% which is still too bright for me. I usually need below 100 cd/m2. And I don't work in a dark room. And monitors are always calibrated at some very high brightness, so if you use very low brightness you get a bad picture. I searched for "low brightness" monitors, but I didn't find anything good.

My opinion on manufacturers. I know there is a petition out on this page to signal the manufacturers that some people have problems with eye strain. The problem I see is that it is impossible for regular users to define the technical cause. The only solution I see is: we either categorize types of eye/head problems and draw up a list of acceptable monitors/GPUs etc. or we wait till developers modernize their desktops and hopefully stumble upon this issue themselves.

hayder1983

brjdenis eizo Monitors go down to 1 cd/m2. I have an eizo ev2460 and an eizo ev2495. I use the ev2495 at 30-40 cd/m2. Its still too bright sometimes but it can go lower. Perhaps you can find a used one without White LED? They arent cheap but good. Prad.de tested alot of them. It is german but autotranslate…

Down below brightness for my ev2495

hayder1983

brjdenis thing is i dont know what my symptom are. Win10+6600xt+ev2495 nausea. Win11 elimated the nausea. But what did give me nausea? Driver Problem? Is win11 rendering different. At the same time win10 on my wotklaptop with ev2495 as external screen is nauseafree & white is less stressful. Pwm seems to be ok for my eyes, but dithering is like ants in my eyes.

I have bought and returned 15 Devices. Sony OLED i returned but Amazon didnt pay me back… i am sure are checking my history 🙂

Manufacterers only test things they can measure, like contrast or flicker. Dont think they will start measuring eye health or brain issues. 😃

brjdenis

hayder1983

Windows 11 is not causing problems for you? I was thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, but it may be better for me to purchase Windows 11 license and do the installation from scratch.

Do you have the feeling that Windows 11 is less irritating for the eyes than Windows 10? Was is just nausea or did you have red eyes as well, that is burning sensation, dryness etc.?