Recommendation for 50 inch TV

Alyosha2001

Short intro: I've been using a 55 inch TV Sony Bravia KD-55XF7077 for almost couple of years, and it has been tolerable by me, usable. Recently I've cracked it's screen, so I tried to buy another.

I've tested and return the following models: Sony KE-55XH8096 (dried black eyes, headaches), TV Sony KD-55X85J (dried eyes, nausea), TV Hisense 55A7100F (PWM), Sony KD-55X81J (dried black eyes, dreamy state, almost break from reality, headache, difficulty waking in the morning.

Then I remembered that I bought, on the recommendations of this forum, my HTC U11 phone, which has been the best phone screen I've ever had sp far, so I've said let's try it with a TV this time.

So, does anyone have a 50ish inch TV recommendation ? (Preferably a newer model, so it can be found, because I've looked my used KD-55XF7077 model but could not find it anywhere, not even just the screen; it's like it has been vanished from the surface of the Earth)

I think it could be beneficial if we could make here a list of usable ones, maybe with a rating from 1 to 10. Thanks!

ensete

Alyosha2001 You have to go to a store and look at it in person. It's the only way to be sure.

Lately I have found the LG "dot sense" TV's to be fairly OK to look at (although the TV itself is, like most modern smart TV's, pretty horrible to actually try and use)

KM

Judging by my own (43") XG8096, I think making a list is not that simple. There's a lot of settings that needed to be adjusted for the TV to become usable. I wouldn't have found them without using sensitive flicker-test equipment. I don't know if the XH models are worse, but there's a chance you returned it without testing all levels of brightness, various options, etc. thoroughly (at least you didn't mention it).
What I went through to pinpoint the reasons of this particular device's causes of eye strain is insane. I found that merely switching HDMI channels has a chance of getting the backlight slightly out of sync, causing high frequency flicker and headaches after just a few minutes. See this post and its follow-up: https://ledstrain.org/d/39-tv-s/59.
I'd love to find my original post where I posted the exact brightness values, settings, and usage behavior that made the TV perfectly usable (no temporal dithering issues, no flicker issues, no eye strain, no red eyes, no headaches), but it's lost somewhere in the forum and hard to find due to the way the forum and its search works. Bottom line is: Game Mode (seems to prevent temporal dithering eye strain), brightness at least 5 (with sensor off) or at least 35 (with sensor on) to prevent headache flicker, and rebooting the TV before powering on any external device or switching from TV mode to HDMI or Android app mode and vice-versa. There's also some other settings to avoid that can cause flicker in the form of black frame insertion.
But that's still not all: I had to install an Android app that permanently displays something (a small clock, in this case) just to prevent the TV from enabling PWM when there's a black screen content. Which sometimes there is, if only shortly, when switching channels, when a PC or other device boots, or when you wait for a game to load. It seems Sony does this PWM on purpose so the black appears not as bright and people are not bothered by backlight bleed (instead now they are bothered by PWM). The same happens when you enable automatic contrast or some other automatic black setting.

Alyosha2001

Thank you very much for the reply! Yes, I also do a lot of tweakings and verify them with a manual shutter camera.

Also noticed that the Gaming and Graphics on Sony seem to be the best profiles. I picked them by the less lag they have, as I figured it's also the least processing. I use to take the brigtness to the lowest level and the contrast to about half, and deactivate all the proccessings possible (Contrast Enhancer, Smooth Motion, etc). As I work in video editing and graphics, I also try to use a good gamma, from the video card control panel (usually up by 20-30%), as it's more natural than the default contrasty one.

I went hours in the sowrooms (eMag, Altex, Carrefour in my coutry, Romania) and ask for remote control and tried all the available TV's. All of them had PWM at lower brightness levels except for the Sony's, that's why I bought 3 of them.

Also went to people's home's and tested as I could from the SH market; all PWM's. In fact, are there any TV's PWM free except for Sony's?

As for changing HDMI's port, I also tried the HDMI's settings, from enhanced to standard, only to no good result.

I did not mention that I want to use the TV only as a monitor for the desktop PC, which has an nvidia 1070 with Windows 8.1 (tested good configuration on the Sony KD-55XF7077 I broke). I don't switch it from TV to HDMI (PC) as I use a TV tunner for that.

By the way, what is your flicker test equipment? Mine is a phone with manual shutter controls or mirrorless Panasonic G80. I also have a mirrorless Fuji X-T30, but it's newer and somehow it likes to syncronize with the flicker.

Thanks, greetings from Romania!

KM

Alyosha2001 Also noticed that the Gaming and Graphics on Sony seem to be the best profiles. I picked them by the less lag they have, as I figured it's also the least processing.

I can only speak for the model that I own: The input lag is the same in those modes, but Graphics mode is worse in that it introduces the smaller sort of eye strain I use to get from temporal dithering. If you are sure you don't suffer from this, then I guess in general you can use modern web browsers and operating systems without any problems.

However, for recent Sony models,

Alyosha2001 I use to take the brigtness to the lowest level

means that you look at PWM in the kilohertz range. This is hard to capture with the shutter method.

Alyosha2001 I also try to use a good gamma, from the video card control panel (usually up by 20-30%)

Be aware doing that can introduce temporal dithering, depending on the graphics card or its driver.

Better methods to detect light flicker are discussed in the oscilloscope thread: https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide
The shutter method's sensitivity depends on the camera, but is usually not high enough. Plus the smaller the fluctuations, the more difficult it becomes to detect them, however they can still cause eye strain and headaches.

Alyosha2001

ensete Thanks! Yes, I did went to stores, to showrooms, and I spent hours, that's how I found that only Sony's have no PWM

Alyosha2001

KM Thanks a lot, read your posts and decided to give 43X81J another try!

diop

I have a Samsung UE49MU6470 (49 inch) which hasn't caused me any issues in almost 5 years of ownership. It's not very comfortable with Smart Apps but I don't use it as a Smart TV.

Alyosha2001

diop Interesting, I've never met a Samsung screen without PWM on the low brightness

ensete

I'll give the same advice I give anyone asking about devices, go to a store and look at it in person. If it gives you issues, do not buy it, if it does not give you issues, go ahead and make the purchase but make sure you can return it in case something in the home emvronment combines with the device to cause an issue

Alyosha2001

ensete Done that; however the issues usually appear after a prolongued period of use, as a good screen can be bad with bad settings

ensete

Alyosha2001

I always ask for the remote in the store and see what the settings I am looking at are, just for that reason

The truth of the matter is, and I know no one on this forum likes to hear it, is that no one knows exactly what causes our issue. There are tons of theories but none of them have been conclusively proven to be the issue. Without a definite cause identified, there is simply no way to empirically know if a device will be usable or not aside from testing it out live in the flesh.

Alyosha2001

So I went from Sony 43x801j (IPS panel) to 50x81j (VA) and then to 50x89j (also VA). I tried different settings, not letting the brightness below 5, disabling all enhancements, RGB and YCbCr color spaces, did not adjust the colors neither in the video control panel nor in the TV.

The thing is I don't get red eyes as from PWM, but headaches and fatigue, which makes the TV almost unusuable.

When I bought the last one the sales told me that, because I had 4 returns, I could not do anymore, so that is it.

Don't know what to try next, what settings or tehniques, whether to update the firmware, etc. The brightness, even at 5, seems a bit high for me, so that could be it, but don't know to to reduce it without flicker.

KM

Alyosha2001 because you mentioned it a while ago, I have reduced the R-Gain/G-Gain/B-Gain values, a setting that I didn't touch before, to "Min" each. The PC picture is noticeably darker now but the image quality didn't suffer much. By reducing the values I did not notice additional eye strain.

Alyosha2001

KM Thanks a lot, that's very useful! I'm trying that right now.

My portable oscilloscope has arrived (it's screen flickers - irony 🙂 ) so now I have to wait for the photodiode and the resistor to try it on

degen

Not sure what the equivalent model in Europe is, but in North America I tried 43X85J and it was not usable

Alyosha2001

degen the 85j is simmilar in theory tu x81j, just with higher refresh rate. The salesman told me that, in his opinion, the x81j should have better quality.

I'm using the 50x89j with the recommended settings and it gives me mild headackes; usable for short periods, not recommended for work.

One thing I tried is the latest driver for gtx1070 which has an option of YCbCr 422 color space, that seemed to help a bit.

So, in summary: try brightness not below 5, gaming mode, disable all reality creation and contrast enhancements and light sensor and power saving.

I could not find another TV in couple showrooms (tried them all) without PWM. Still waiting if someone finds a better solution

Alyosha2001

Just tested with the oscilloscope, and it has 50kHz flicker at brightness below 15 (not 5). Above it is flat, but too bright for me.

Also tested my Fuji X-T30 camera which gives mw simptoms and found a big flicker on it.

So, yes, I think my main agressor in theese cases is the flicker