Possible way to detect what Windows file is triggering our condition...

Ddiop · Apr 13, 2022

Here are the updates installed on my good W7 install. Not sure if they are all security related, though.

Hotfix(s):                 187 Hotfix(s) Installed.
                           [01]: KB2849697
                           [02]: KB2849696
                           [03]: KB2841134
                           [04]: KB2670838
                           [05]: KB971033
                           [06]: KB2479943
                           [07]: KB2491683
                           [08]: KB2506014
                           [09]: KB2506212
                           [10]: KB2532531
                           [11]: KB2533552
                           [12]: KB2533623
                           [13]: KB2534111
                           [14]: KB2552343
                           [15]: KB2560656
                           [16]: KB2564958
                           [17]: KB2579686
                           [18]: KB2585542
                           [19]: KB2604115
                           [20]: KB2620704
                           [21]: KB2621440
                           [22]: KB2631813
                           [23]: KB2639308
                           [24]: KB2653956
                           [25]: KB2654428
                           [26]: KB2656356
                           [27]: KB2667402
                           [28]: KB2685939
                           [29]: KB2690533
                           [30]: KB2698365
                           [31]: KB2705219
                           [32]: KB2727528
                           [33]: KB2729094
                           [34]: KB2729452
                           [35]: KB2731771
                           [36]: KB2736422
                           [37]: KB2742599
                           [38]: KB2758857
                           [39]: KB2770660
                           [40]: KB2786081
                           [41]: KB2789645
                           [42]: KB2807986
                           [43]: KB2813430
                           [44]: KB2834140
                           [45]: KB2840631
                           [46]: KB2847927
                           [47]: KB2861698
                           [48]: KB2862330
                           [49]: KB2864202
                           [50]: KB2868038
                           [51]: KB2871997
                           [52]: KB2882822
                           [53]: KB2884256
                           [54]: KB2888049
                           [55]: KB2893294
                           [56]: KB2894844
                           [57]: KB2900986
                           [58]: KB2911501
                           [59]: KB2912390
                           [60]: KB2931356
                           [61]: KB2937610
                           [62]: KB2943357
                           [63]: KB2968294
                           [64]: KB2972100
                           [65]: KB2972211
                           [66]: KB2973112
                           [67]: KB2973201
                           [68]: KB2977292
                           [69]: KB2978742
                           [70]: KB2984972
                           [71]: KB2991963
                           [72]: KB3005607
                           [73]: KB3010788
                           [74]: KB3011780
                           [75]: KB3018238
                           [76]: KB3019978
                           [77]: KB3021674
                           [78]: KB3023215
                           [79]: KB3030377
                           [80]: KB3032655
                           [81]: KB3033929
                           [82]: KB3035126
                           [83]: KB3037574
                           [84]: KB3045685
                           [85]: KB3046017
                           [86]: KB3046269
                           [87]: KB3059317
                           [88]: KB3060716
                           [89]: KB3067903
                           [90]: KB3071756
                           [91]: KB3072305
                           [92]: KB3074543
                           [93]: KB3075220
                           [94]: KB3086255
                           [95]: KB3092601
                           [96]: KB3093513
                           [97]: KB3097989
                           [98]: KB3101722
                           [99]: KB3108371
                           [100]: KB3108664
                           [101]: KB3109103
                           [102]: KB3109560
                           [103]: KB3110329
                           [104]: KB3115858
                           [105]: KB3122648
                           [106]: KB3126587
                           [107]: KB3127220
                           [108]: KB3138612
                           [109]: KB3138910
                           [110]: KB3138962
                           [111]: KB3139398
                           [112]: KB3139914
                           [113]: KB3149090
                           [114]: KB3150220
                           [115]: KB3155178
                           [116]: KB3156016
                           [117]: KB3159398
                           [118]: KB3161949
                           [119]: KB3163245
                           [120]: KB3168965
                           [121]: KB3172605
                           [122]: KB3188730
                           [123]: KB3192391
                           [124]: KB3197867
                           [125]: KB3205394
                           [126]: KB3210131
                           [127]: KB3212642
                           [128]: KB4012212
                           [129]: KB4014565
                           [130]: KB4014573
                           [131]: KB4014579
                           [132]: KB4015546
                           [133]: KB4019263
                           [134]: KB4022722
                           [135]: KB4025337
                           [136]: KB4034679
                           [137]: KB4038779
                           [138]: KB4040966
                           [139]: KB4041678
                           [140]: KB4048960
                           [141]: KB4054176
                           [142]: KB4054521
                           [143]: KB4056897
                           [144]: KB4074587
                           [145]: KB4088878
                           [146]: KB4093108
                           [147]: KB4095514
                           [148]: KB4103712
                           [149]: KB4284867
                           [150]: KB4338612
                           [151]: KB4338823
                           [152]: KB4343899
                           [153]: KB4344177
                           [154]: KB4457055
                           [155]: KB4457145
                           [156]: KB4462915
                           [157]: KB4467106
                           [158]: KB4470600
                           [159]: KB4471328
                           [160]: KB4474419
                           [161]: KB4480085
                           [162]: KB4480960
                           [163]: KB4483483
                           [164]: KB4486459
                           [165]: KB4486564
                           [166]: KB4489885
                           [167]: KB4490128
                           [168]: KB4490628
                           [169]: KB4493448
                           [170]: KB4495612
                           [171]: KB4499175
                           [172]: KB4501226
                           [173]: KB4503269
                           [174]: KB4506976
                           [175]: KB4507456
                           [176]: KB4507704
                           [177]: KB4512486
                           [178]: KB4516033
                           [179]: KB4519108
                           [180]: KB4520003
                           [181]: KB4525233
                           [182]: KB4530692
                           [183]: KB4532960
                           [184]: KB4534314
                           [185]: KB4536952
                           [186]: KB976902
                           [187]: KB4525235

Ddegen · Apr 15, 2022

ensete KB2670838 is the Platform Update and changes the rendering I believe.

I also find a Simplix updated Windows 7 install to be painful.

Eensete · Apr 16, 2022

degen
We may be onto something here.

Here is the file list installed with that update

C:\Windows\System32\Xpsgdiconverter.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-user32-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D2d1.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Fntcache.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Dwrite.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10level9.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10_1.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10_1core.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10core.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d11.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Dxgi.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10warp.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-advapi32-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-advapi32-l2-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-normaliz-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-ole32-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-shell32-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-shlwapi-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-shlwapi-l2-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-version-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\spp\tokens\ppdlic\Msmpeg2vdec-ppdlic.xrm-ms
C:\Windows\System32\Msmpeg2vdec.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Wmphoto.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Xpsprint.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Uianimation.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Windowscodecsext.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Windowscodecs.dll

I'm going to see if I can copy all those files out from my current install, and then write a script that replaces them on a target system. Then test it on a VM and see what happens

JJTL · Apr 16, 2022

degen Don't mean to rain on your parade but that update was released back in 2013, which I believe predates certain rendering "issues".

Eensete · Apr 16, 2022

JTL Window 8 was released in 2012 and triggered my symptoms

First try was a no go. I checked in Windows 10 and not all files are present. The ones that are present are:

C:\Windows\System32\Xpsgdiconverter.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Api-ms-win-downlevel-user32-l1-1-0.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D2d1.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Fntcache.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Dwrite.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10level9.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10_1.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10_1core.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10core.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d11.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Dxgi.dll
C:\Windows\System32\D3d10warp.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Msmpeg2vdec.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Wmphoto.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Xpsprint.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Uianimation.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Windowscodecsext.dll
C:\Windows\System32\Windowscodecs.dll

You cannot overwrite files in system32 when the system is running, so I booted to install media, Shift-F10'd to a command prompt, and overwrite them from there. I just did a . to copy them all over. I then rebooted, but the VM would not boot, it hung at the point prior to the login screen being shown. I guess next step is to overwrite them one by one, trying to boot after each one.

I am going to email my Microsoft Engineer contacts and get their input on this.

JJTL · Apr 16, 2022

ensete I am going to email my Microsoft Engineer contacts and get their input on this.

I see two possible paths of bisection here.

a) Discuss and possibly investigate the rendering differences between "good" and "bad" builds of Windows 10 (1511/1611)

b) I don't know how much source access the average MS engineer has these days to legacy products, but the fact a Windows update that can probably be determined turned Windows 7 into a bad OS is much closer to a smoking gun in my opinion.

I've said this before, but without a probable cause and effect relationship you really cant expect people at "big tech companies" to take us seriously and investigate these issues when there's 9000 (joke) different possible causes with no direction. Hence why I'm curious about b)

Eensete · Apr 16, 2022

JTL I've said this before, but without a probable cause and effect relationship you really cant expect people at "big tech companies" to take us seriously and investigate these issues when there's 9000 (joke) different possible causes with no direction. Hence why I'm curious about b)

My company has a Masters Services Agreement with Microsoft and I have an open and approved Americans with Disabilities Act case with them, I have been assigned a senior Accommodation specialist at Microsoft and they have access to Windows Engineers. This is beyond a random customer complaining to a "big tech company"

JJTL · Apr 16, 2022

ensete Don't worry. I've seen some of the logistics that's involved with similar investigations. I wasn't doubting you and was merely stating what I believe to be the most fruitful lines of inquiry and the most prudent aspects to investigate (also to attempt to conserve valuable engineer time) and not have people "run around in circles".

MMaxx · Apr 20, 2022

@ensete So is your situation like this: you do have a win 7 machine that you can use without any eye strain, but any more recent windows or linux or apple operating system will give you instant eye strain?

You have probably told this in different posts, but even with my Boox Mira display, I dont want to spent too much time searching.

I'm asking because as you probably read, my situation changed radially 2 months ago. Now any display (except maybe this Mira e-ink) will strain my eyes. TV's, smartphones and Windows PC's and laptops. I have several devices, differnt versions and nothing has changed in the hardware, and I really doubt that all my TV's and PC's and Smartphones that previously were OK, suddenly all got some software update that rendered them unusable.

I am still able to read a book and kindle without backlight. The Kindle new paperwhite backlight seems to have started to bother me now.

So I might try to install a win 7 machine, but I don't have high hopes that it would make a difference. since Linux Mint Mate 19.1 does not seem to make either.

My conclusion starts to poin towards some strange neurological "burn-out" that does not seem to recover. My eyes felt great after pupil dilating eye drops, and the constant redness disappeared for the 1st time in 2 months.

even 4 day no screen time during easter did not make a difference. And I cant have much longer periods. Maybe during summer holiday I might be able to avoid screens for 4 weeks, but I doubt that if 4 days does not do anything, except temporarily remove the red eyes and eye strain and drynes, then why would 4 weeks make a difference.

Eensete · Apr 22, 2022

Maxx @ensete So is your situation like this: you do have a win 7 machine that you can use without any eye strain, but any more recent windows or linux or apple operating system will give you instant eye strain?

Windows 7 (without the mystery offending update) = zero eye strain
Windows 10 = instant Eye Strain (haven't tested Window 11)
Linux, it really depends on the distro. I have in the past had some Lubuntu installs that were fine. Most Mint builds cause eye strain. It's a crap shoot
Smartphones are again a crapshoot. Most cause eyestrain, it's a hunt until I find one that doesn't, and I have never found any similarity between devices that do not cause me eye strain.
Mac's and iPads are similarly random, some older iPads cause me zero eye strain, most cause instant eye strain

Several times I have had devices that I was able to tolerate "fail" on me and start causing eye strain. Not trying to be the bearer of bad news, but at least for me, in my experience, once something that cause me no problems failed and started causing problems, I have never, ever been able to reverse the situation and get it back to something that does not cause me eyestrain.

MMaxx · Apr 24, 2022

Why I'm interested in win7 is that if it really, truly is something you can use without eye strain, then I might go trough the trouble of installing win7 myself. But since your situation seems similar to mine, but with the difference that my situation suddenly worsened to be similar to yours 2 months ago and I do not have any display device, except Kindle and Mira that do not cause eye strain, I am really doubtful that an os type or version could make a difference.

I have now confirmed that eye patching helps, if not completely mitigates the problem. E.g., Yesterday I was warching TV with the kids for 1 hour. My eyes became red, dry and irritated. The sam TV that has been problem free for 7 years.

When the kids went to sleep, I put tape on my right eye glass and we watched Netflix for some 3 hours without any eye strain.

Now I'm writing this with also only left eye.

I tested the same during last week at work.

Now this cannot be the solution, as I cannot meet customers with tape on my right eye.

If there could be a doctor who could think outside the box and could really investigate, why my stereo vision got messed up 2 moths ago and does not seem to heal. Maybe I could get a diagnosis to this and get prescribed glasses with the other eye blocked, so I could get by those days at work where I need to be onsite at the customer.

I can deal with the occasional teams video calls where I need to have my video on, without patching. And for those occasions where I really have a long teams video session and my eyes get bloodshot, maybe I could have those pupil dilating eye drops to rest my eyes for the evening. The effect of those drops was really amazing. For the first time in weeks my eyes were not stinging and bloodshot, instead clear like the eyes of children.

But sorry @ensete for saying this, but anfter struggling with this for 30 years and now having the situation that not even PWM free screens are tolerable anymore, I have my doubts, can you REALLY use your win7 machine for, say 10h workday for a week, without any problems. I say this because I really doubt that there could be so many individual differences to this condition. I had 7 display devices that had been ok for 1-12 years, which basically turned not OK over night and there is zero hope I can use them ever again.

Eensete · Apr 25, 2022

Maxx Why I'm interested in win7 is that if it really, truly is something you can use without eye strain, then I might go trough the trouble of installing win7 myself. But since your situation seems similar to mine, but with the difference that my situation suddenly worsened to be similar to yours 2 months ago and I do not have any display device, except Kindle and Mira that do not cause eye strain, I am really doubtful that an os type or version could make a difference.[/quote]

It can't hurt to give it a try. You can pick up older computers off Craigslist and eBay for $100 or so these days.

I have now confirmed that eye patching helps, if not completely mitigates the problem. E.g., Yesterday I was warching TV with the kids for 1 hour. My eyes became red, dry and irritated. The sam TV that has been problem free for 7 years.

Devices have often failed for me. My Amazon fire Stick all of a sudden failed after 5 years. Brains change

When the kids went to sleep, I put tape on my right eye glass and we watched Netflix for some 3 hours without any eye strain.

That would seem to confirm Binocular Vision Deficiency.

Now this cannot be the solution, as I cannot meet customers with tape on my right eye.

Tape, sure, but eye patches are just as effective and are seem to be accepted in society when people need them.

If there could be a doctor who could think outside the box and could really investigate, why my stereo vision got messed up 2 moths ago and does not seem to heal. Maybe I could get a diagnosis to this and get prescribed glasses with the other eye blocked, so I could get by those days at work where I need to be onsite at the customer.

Based on all my experience and research, it's not an eye problem. It's a brain problem. As for glasses to block an eye, again you can buy eye patches off Amazon for a few dollars.

But sorry @ensete for saying this, but anfter struggling with this for 30 years and now having the situation that not even PWM free screens are tolerable anymore, I have my doubts, can you REALLY use your win7 machine for, say 10h workday for a week, without any problems.

I do not use Windows 7 for work, I was forced onto windows 10. I use Windows 10 while wearing an eye patch during the work day. Windows 7 if for my home computer and I will run that likely for the rest of my life unless I find some other OS that works (some future version of Windows, some Linux build, ReactOS, whatever)

I say this because I really doubt that there could be so many individual differences to this condition. I had 7 display devices that had been ok for 1-12 years, which basically turned not OK over night and there is zero hope I can use them ever again.

Every brain in unique. So you are going to have lots of variability in brain disorders like this.