Nvidia Dithering

Gurm If your using the output port on the Nvidia card it's 99.5% the Nvidia's fault. If the Intel graphics is disabled in the BIOS it's 100% the Nvidia cards fault.

Wanna take some GPU-Z VBIOS dumps for me and send them my way? (Find someone else to do it if you don't want to hurt your eyes. I understand)

JTL Well it's an XPS so I think everything runs through the Intel chip anyway in this configuration?

Gurm Are you implying it's a laptop?

YAIS.

Gurm Uh oh.

I know the dithering is 100% the Nvidia GPU with a bad 9xx or 10xx card on a desktop but I wonder how the situation is with laptops, since as you know, the final output is through the Intel card regardless if the Nvidia card is being used.

My brother has an HP Zbook 15 G3 with Intel graphics and an Nvidia Quadro M1000M (from the 9xx series), and what's interesting is by default it uses Optimus, but in the BIOS there is an option to just use the Nvidia card. I tried said option and in device manager the Intel card seems to be completely "disconnected" from the running system, although since it was running the Optimus driver Windows just loaded the standard VGA driver, refusing to use the Nvidia one.

reaganry You can try modesetting or fbdev drivers on Linux

ryans Won't work. some 9xx and all known 10xx cards dither even within the BIOS setup.

JTL And this is why I'd like to hear some first hand reports about the AMD Vega cards. I know more recent AMD cards have a bad reputation, but I have an 6950 here that is perfectly good so they can make 'good' cards from my perspective.

AgentX20 Check the VBIOS using GPU-Z?

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

If you could find a bad 970 (SOMEONE NEEDS TO DO THIS), it would be interesting to compare the VBIOS version of the "good 970" vs the "bad 970"? Then I have some more ideas on top of that.

Yeah, I'll check out the 980 BIOS versions and see if there's anything there.

OK - so I've now tried two Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX980 cards (both v1.0 hardware).

They differ on the memory front - one is Hynix and one Samsung. Both have very early bios versions.

Both give me low levels of eye strain, which is hugely annoying for this is supposedly the SAME chip as my 'works-great' 970 card.

I'll spend some time shortly, and push both cards up to the newest BIOS version in case that helps. Both updates report they "improve compatibility with some monitors". Quite what that does I dunno. But I suspect it's probably a bad thing for folks like us here. Still worth a crack.

AgentX20 Make sure you backup the old VBIOS first in case you need to flash back.

AgentX20

Do they DEFINITELY give you eye strain? I find I tend to get a small amount of nocebo affect when I know something may cause me issues. It's part of why I don't like reading this site too much

person says x causes them issues
It immediately plays with my mind and I think it may be an issue for me

I bought a TV that is LED backlit a while back too and because I knew it was LED I would get low levels of strain/headache but it turns out that was just me imagining it and it's actually 100% fine. I think this is a big issue for all of us and makes things even harder to figure out.

Did you try some of the oldest drivers to see if they're fine and what OS are you using? (I assume you did)

980 was at the forefront though so maybe they started the dithering in that first and just implemented it on all the others later on.

Is there no way to contact Nvidia and get them to give us details on changes they have made to the output in recent years + when, where, and what?

JTL Make sure you backup the old VBIOS first in case you need to flash back.

Sure thing! Bit of a pain as I have to uninstall the Nvidia drivers to flash safely so haven't done the updates yet.

Soreeyes Do they DEFINITELY give you eye strain? I find I tend to get a small amount of nocebo affect when I know something may cause me issues. It's part of why I don't like reading this site too much

I know what you mean, and I am conscious of it.

However, as I push through trying these devices (screens, video cards, TVs) out, it's the fact that I walk away feeling rotten/seasick (with symptoms lasting into the next day) that I know this is more than just paranoia. Believe me, there's nothing more I'd like than a modern high power GPU and big wide screen to run my flight and driving sims on!! And I live in fear of the day my 54" Plasma screen dies. I've even stockpiled a spare CCFL backlit 24" screen I picked up second-hand.

person says x causes them issues
It immediately plays with my mind and I think it may be an issue for me

That's because this is a very complex issue. There are so many different factors, possible causes and sensitivities at work here it can be both frustrating and depressing - with no obvious way to pin down the root cause.

I bought a TV that is LED backlit a while back too and because I knew it was LED I would get low levels of strain/headache but it turns out that was just me imagining it and it's actually 100% fine. I think this is a big issue for all of us and makes things even harder to figure out.

Good for you finding a screen that works for you. I have a 2013 15" MacBook Pro in front of me here that is PERFECT for me to use all day every day - and it's an IPS screen. The anti-glare coating is rubbing off so I could get the screen replaced but I'm worried what comes back won't work. I've used other laptops and other modern screens and more often than not they cause headaches. I've bought a 34" VA Samsung panel and an Acer 27" hi refresh low eye strain screen and had to on sell both as they just didn't work. Go back to my old Dell 24" CCFL screens and all is well. And I lose money almost every time I try these gadgets out so it's not like I'm not incentivised to want to like them.

Did you try some of the oldest drivers to see if they're fine and what OS are you using? (I assume you did)

No I've not tried older drivers. This same setup is perfect with a 970 card working GREAT. Drop the 980 in and the headaches start. I'm doubtful it's the drivers as this experience mirrors what I've seen with a host of more modern cards - 980Ti, 1070, 1080 etc.

980 was at the forefront though so maybe they started the dithering in that first and just implemented it on all the others later on.

It sure looks like it. I was just hopeful I could find something that works OK like my 970 and eek out a little more performance.

Is there no way to contact Nvidia and get them to give us details on changes they have made to the output in recent years + when, where, and what?

I think a few folks around here have tried this to no avail. We're too few in number to make them do anything much. And if there are lots of people in this situation (and I think there are based upon the Apple MacBook forum threads, and Apple iPhone X discussions) we're too dispersed due to the difficulties pinning down the root causes.

AgentX20
What driver version are you using for your 6950? I have a 7850 which I was able to use on my old machine with a quad core phenom II and windows 7. I recently put together a ryzen 7 build running windows 10 and the 7850 is causing eye strain. I tried installing drivers from 2013 (I can't remember the exact version) but no luck. I'm thinking maybe the windows 10 drivers are the issue. Unfortunately the Ryzen 7 is not compatible with windows 7 and my USB keyboard can't be found during install.

SeniorTaquito I was most recently (3-4 months ago) using the latest AMD drivers available for the card, on up-to-date Windows 10. I'm not home so cannot give you the specific version number but I never had ANY problems with the 6950 no matter the driver revision over many years.