• OS

  • Windows 10 Anniversary Edition

Gurm I don't have Win10 but there is something worth trying since you are the admin. Edit the client UI preferences or the registry to change the colour bitdepth under session bpp. You can actually go as low as 15-bit. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee483491(v=winembedded.70).aspx Remember to restart session after every change.

It's interesting.. I wonder if RDP has something to do with windowed or exclusive mode as well as Direct3D. I know when it comes to playing video the video people pay a lot of attention to framerate of both the monitor and the video and have observed different results with different D3D versions as well as the mode of the window. I doubt it is FRC travelling over the connection as that would waste bandwidth. It has to be something the application is directed to do on the local end.

So along that end I see there is also a registry key FullScreenRFXOnly where the client will use hardware-assisted mode or windowed GDI mode. Also worth a look at too.

  • KM likes this.
    5 days later

    Actually I just found a machine running Anniversary Edition that DOESN'T hurt my eyes. It uses onboard Intel graphics from an old Intel Core2Duo, over DisplayPort to a dell monitor.

    I'm going to pull the model number of the monitor and the model of the Intel integrated graphics. This is surprising and unusual... I wonder if it really is a driver issue still? I just wish we knew WHAT was happening on the screen that made it unusable!

    Games running "Fullscreen" do not give me eyestrain in Win10 AE. Fullscreen (Windowed) and Windowed give me problems.

    It has to be the window composition system, but... uh... what?

    Here's why:

    "When an application runs in fullscreen mode, it runs in "exclusive mode". That means it has full and direct control over the screen output.

    But when it runs in window mode, it needs to send its output to the window manager (windows explorer) which then manages where on the screen that output is drawn. This takes some additional performance. The performance penalty, however, is greatly reduced in newer version of windows."

    found here: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/107028/is-there-a-difference-between-running-games-in-windowed-or-fullscreen-mode/107071#107071

    • JTL likes this.

    Yeah. The Window Manager has several window composition steps. It looks like they are doing SOMETHING that wigs out our eyes in the latest iteration of it. But only on SOME hardware - certain hardware that is old enough is unaffected, probably because it doesn't support whatever shortcut the system is trying to take to make that penalty "greatly reduced".

    Using fullscreen in games is becoming harder as a workaround because many games now when selecting the "Fullscreen" is actually windowed with no borders.

    • JTL replied to this.

      Wiped all my drives in my main system, convert to MBR, Windows 7 now my main OS. Dual booting did not work well with Windows 10 on GPT and 7 on MBR. I think there is less eyestrain. Text is rendered differently for sure with less anti-aliasing. Could easily be placebo, but I will post my impressions in the coming weeks.

      This is a bit unrelated, but has anyone noticed more eyestrain in certain applications? Chrome recently disabled the ability to use old GDI font rendering and now forces DirectWrite. There are many complaints of eyestrain on the internet about this. There is a fork of Chromium called CentBrowser that still allows you to disable DirectWrite, but I haven't tried it yet.

        degen I've been having eye strain problems with Chrome under Windows since a few years. Firefox was always good. But I think now it tries to use DirectWrite, too. Probably depends on the Windows version. One could see it in the about:support page.
        Im not sure if, for me, DirectWrite was Chrome's eye strain problem. For some earlier versions DirectWrite could be turned off, which didn't help me.

        Maybe we should start to make a list of problematic applications for all operating systems and see if users report the same applications. I noticed this kind of problem in Windows, Linux, iOS, and Android.

          I noticed that in Windows 7 under "Performance Options" there is a "Enable desktop composition" option

          Windows 7 ABSOLUTELY renders differently. It uses the hardware renderer, for one - your video card is doing final window composition and also rendering fonts. I also use Windows 7 on my primary machine and have absolutely no eye strain with it (Windows 7, Intel i7 with nVidia graphics ONLY), even though it's an LED monitor with PWM.

          4 days later

          Ok so I spent a little time poring over the Windows 10 Anniversary changelog, and I couldn't find ANYTHING that would indicate what they screwed up with window composition... until I read the upcoming Content Creator Update brag list. That one indicated that "The Content Creator Update builds on "Composition Namespaces Introduced in Windows 10 Anniversary".

          So there definitely WERE substantial changes made to the composition layer for Anniversary. Here's hoping Microsoft FIXES this.

          Interestingly, as I think I posted the other day, I found a system running Windows 10 Anniversary that DIDN'T hurt my eyes. It was a Dell Optiplex 780, Core2Duo, with the integrated Intel graphics running via DisplayPort to a Dell monitor. The monitor is probably a slightly older model, but not terribly old as it is flatscreen with a nice color gamut. I will be going by there again this week to get particulars on the monitor and the graphics chipset and driver revisions.

          This definitely seems like something that should be fixable, but probably by someone with a lot more intimate detail about the desktop rendering system in Windows 10.

          degen This is a bit unrelated, but has anyone noticed more eyestrain in certain applications?

          Absolutely. Applications can use their own font and color rendering engines, and eye strain can be triggered by specific applications. Citrix is a big offender for me.

          Windows 7 ABSOLUTELY renders differently. It uses the hardware renderer, for one - your video card is doing final window composition and also rendering fonts.

          You know I am thinking a lot of our problems are coming from software rendering engines.

          Look at the Intel issue: Driver version matters, so it can't be entirely hardware related. People have issues with individual applications. Hardware swaps between machines cannot always fix the issue, upgrades can render usable screens non usable.

          One thing I know is that in order to keep costs down, hardware manufacturers try to push as much of the processing over to software vs doing it in hardware. It's cheaper and allows for updates over the products life. So the culprit may be some software rendering feature like sub pixel anti aliasing or color rendering.

          Interestingly, as I think I posted the other day, I found a system running Windows 10 Anniversary that DIDN'T hurt my eyes. It was a Dell Optiplex 780, Core2Duo, with the integrated Intel graphics running via DisplayPort to a Dell monitor

          Do me a favor check and see if the monitor driver is installed (see if it is using the manufactures ICC color profile vs the default Windows one). I have nearly cured my eye strain by adding that to my machine. And just to test, I removed the color profile, and even though visually nothing changed, I instantly got eye strain again. That color profile is telling the monitor to display colors a certain way, and the default Windows profile may be introducing additional dither or sub pixel manipulation

            So my work machine - which is fine under older versions of windows but bad under anniversary - has the monitor drivers (Dell S2409wb) but NOT the color profiles. I checked, and the monitor drivers were from Dell, but generic 2009 versions. I reinstalled them and the color profiles (which were empty before) populated. I can try upgrading again, although I'm loathe to do so as it wastes a morning especially if I have to revert.

            I tried the same process on my monitor at home. It seemed to improve instantly. Perhaps not 100% but very much improved. Or maybe it's placebo. I'll post back here with my results later.

              Gurm Glad to hear it. Definitely test over several days.

              I can try upgrading again, although I'm loathe to do so as it wastes a morning especially if I have to revert.

              You may want to consider adopting one of my life rules as a sensitized person: If something works for you/does not cause you any pain, DO NOT CHANGE IT UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY

              Yes, this means giving up on being on the cutting edge of anything. But the trade off is worth it is you reduce the amount of pain you need to suffer with. I was using Windows XP up until the day MS expired support for it. I have 7 now and I'm not touching it until 2020 when MS ends security patches.

                5 days later

                I am experiencing less eyestrain using Firefox. The effect appears quickly and the comfort difference is noticeable when switching between windows.

                • KM likes this.
                a month later

                Windows 10 LTSB 2015 works great, too. It's a pre-anniversary build. I can even use Chrome on it without problems, which is very strange.

                dev