Windows 7 ABSOLUTELY renders differently. It uses the hardware renderer, for one - your video card is doing final window composition and also rendering fonts. I also use Windows 7 on my primary machine and have absolutely no eye strain with it (Windows 7, Intel i7 with nVidia graphics ONLY), even though it's an LED monitor with PWM.
Windows 10 Anniversary Edition
4 days later
Ok so I spent a little time poring over the Windows 10 Anniversary changelog, and I couldn't find ANYTHING that would indicate what they screwed up with window composition... until I read the upcoming Content Creator Update brag list. That one indicated that "The Content Creator Update builds on "Composition Namespaces Introduced in Windows 10 Anniversary".
So there definitely WERE substantial changes made to the composition layer for Anniversary. Here's hoping Microsoft FIXES this.
Interestingly, as I think I posted the other day, I found a system running Windows 10 Anniversary that DIDN'T hurt my eyes. It was a Dell Optiplex 780, Core2Duo, with the integrated Intel graphics running via DisplayPort to a Dell monitor. The monitor is probably a slightly older model, but not terribly old as it is flatscreen with a nice color gamut. I will be going by there again this week to get particulars on the monitor and the graphics chipset and driver revisions.
This definitely seems like something that should be fixable, but probably by someone with a lot more intimate detail about the desktop rendering system in Windows 10.
degen This is a bit unrelated, but has anyone noticed more eyestrain in certain applications?
Absolutely. Applications can use their own font and color rendering engines, and eye strain can be triggered by specific applications. Citrix is a big offender for me.
Windows 7 ABSOLUTELY renders differently. It uses the hardware renderer, for one - your video card is doing final window composition and also rendering fonts.
You know I am thinking a lot of our problems are coming from software rendering engines.
Look at the Intel issue: Driver version matters, so it can't be entirely hardware related. People have issues with individual applications. Hardware swaps between machines cannot always fix the issue, upgrades can render usable screens non usable.
One thing I know is that in order to keep costs down, hardware manufacturers try to push as much of the processing over to software vs doing it in hardware. It's cheaper and allows for updates over the products life. So the culprit may be some software rendering feature like sub pixel anti aliasing or color rendering.
Interestingly, as I think I posted the other day, I found a system running Windows 10 Anniversary that DIDN'T hurt my eyes. It was a Dell Optiplex 780, Core2Duo, with the integrated Intel graphics running via DisplayPort to a Dell monitor
Do me a favor check and see if the monitor driver is installed (see if it is using the manufactures ICC color profile vs the default Windows one). I have nearly cured my eye strain by adding that to my machine. And just to test, I removed the color profile, and even though visually nothing changed, I instantly got eye strain again. That color profile is telling the monitor to display colors a certain way, and the default Windows profile may be introducing additional dither or sub pixel manipulation
So my work machine - which is fine under older versions of windows but bad under anniversary - has the monitor drivers (Dell S2409wb) but NOT the color profiles. I checked, and the monitor drivers were from Dell, but generic 2009 versions. I reinstalled them and the color profiles (which were empty before) populated. I can try upgrading again, although I'm loathe to do so as it wastes a morning especially if I have to revert.
I tried the same process on my monitor at home. It seemed to improve instantly. Perhaps not 100% but very much improved. Or maybe it's placebo. I'll post back here with my results later.
- Edited
Gurm Glad to hear it. Definitely test over several days.
I can try upgrading again, although I'm loathe to do so as it wastes a morning especially if I have to revert.
You may want to consider adopting one of my life rules as a sensitized person: If something works for you/does not cause you any pain, DO NOT CHANGE IT UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY
Yes, this means giving up on being on the cutting edge of anything. But the trade off is worth it is you reduce the amount of pain you need to suffer with. I was using Windows XP up until the day MS expired support for it. I have 7 now and I'm not touching it until 2020 when MS ends security patches.
5 days later
- Edited
I am experiencing less eyestrain using Firefox. The effect appears quickly and the comfort difference is noticeable when switching between windows.
a month later
Windows 10 LTSB 2015 works great, too. It's a pre-anniversary build. I can even use Chrome on it without problems, which is very strange.
5 days later
Yes, I may install LTSB 2015 because it won't force updates like the standards builds do. So far I've managed to keep most of my machines on pre-anniversary builds. I can use most of them for long periods of time. But I have two identical machines in my home lab, both are Dell small-form-factor 7010's. The ONLY difference between them is the OS build, and the difference on my eyes is night and day!
LTSB 2015 doesn't come with the Edge browser. What happens when you install it?
I ask this because MS has a habit of changing system libraries when you install newer versions of Office or IE.
14 days later
I have noticed the adaptive brightness in windows 10 can cause bad eyestrain. Have anyone checked whether in windows 10 after the anniversary update it doesnt get automatically turned back on, thus creating the eyestrain in anniversary?
That would be a good thought - if we were talking about laptops. Adaptive Brightness is never enabled on desktops with no light sensors...
12 days later
I recently installed a pre-anniversary windows 10 (version 1507 build number 10240.16384) on a new desktop alongside a windows 7. So dual OS on the same machine. I cannot use the windows 10 for over 10 minutes while the windows 7 works just fine. Not sure what is going on.
7 days later
Jerry Windows 10 is always going to be inferior. Things to try:
- Make sure the ICC color profile is right. This matters a LOT.
- Make sure you're using good drivers. You didn't say what video card you have, but the Windows 10 version of, for example, Intel Integrated drivers is BAD. I purposely downgrade it to a mid-2015 level.
Card driver shouldn't be an issue for that card.
- Edited
Jerry I've just purchased a basic Acer desktop with a GT730 installed and W10 Home Premium - It's unusable.
I decided to install a copy of W7 and intentionally looked for an early driver which supports this card (circa 2014).
After considerable time on this machine I'm having no luck. There is visible dithering/flickering of some sort happening. The contrast/white levels, even on Windows 7 just seem more 'harsh white' than my 2009 Intel GMA HD machine. I've downloaded a display profile for my display (Dell U2414h) and while it made a difference in the colour balance, didn't change the flickering/harshness of the screen.
They've also blocked the extra HDMI ports on the motherboard, so I'm assuming only the discrete graphics will work on this PC.
Jerry, did you find a driver for Windows 7 that works for you?
diop My driver version is "361.43-desktop-win8-win7-winvista-64bit-international-whql". It works fine for me. I downloaded it a few months ago from nVidia. You can easily find a download link thru google. Try it. The cable I am currently using is dvi-to-dvi. Not sure if HDMI will make a difference.
I have not yet got a chance to retest the pre-anniversary windows 10 per Gurm's suggestion. Hopefully this weekend.
Pre-anniversary Windows 10 is definitely... worse... than Windows 7. But not unusable ... for me. Might be for you.