• OSWindows

  • Symptoms after windows 10 update to 21H2

So, I bought a new laptop a few days ago, the huawei matebook d15 as the screen seemed pretty ok to me.

Everything was fine and I immediately stopped the windows updates. Today, I relaunched the updates, and once 21H2 version was installed, I felt mild symptoms and the impression that the screen looks different. Like brighter, sunny like, and font seems different.

I really can't tell if it's placebo or not. I have no clue. I'm now trying to create a bootable usb with an old version of windows. Is there a quicker way to roll back to older windows 10 version ? What version of windows is fine in general ? Really, this thing is driving us crazy.

    Liberator005 same thing happened to me, the laptop I was using for years started causing eye strain after the recent win update, you can do a system restore. sometimes the update install save a version on your previous win for a period of time, just search create system restore and follow the directions it will uninstall any changes to your windows after the restore point

      Liberator005 Sorry to hear that. The first thing to try would be to 'update' your display drivers to the old version as this is the most likely culprit - along with the windows upgrade it's highly likely your graphics drivers were also updated. Thankfully it's very easy to roll back:

      • go to Device Manager
      • Open up Display Adapters
      • Right click on the Intel (or Ryzen) graphics
      • Select Update Driver
      • Select Browse My Computer for Drivers
      • Select Let Me Pick from a List
      • Choose the oldest driver in there!

      That's what I have to do and it works. Failing that it is possible to roll back Windows for 30 days normally - go to the Windows menu and type 'reset' and open the Reset This PC window and you'll have options in there.

      According to Microsoft, however, Windows shouldn't do any kind of processing that would affect us, it's more likely to be the graphics drivers. But who knows!

          si_edgey According to Microsoft, however, Windows shouldn't do any kind of processing that would affect us, it's more likely to be the graphics drivers. But who knows!

          This is incorrect. Microsoft often updates system files, including functions related to the display (especially DirectX/DirectDraw/DirectWrite)

          I would reformat the PC, reinstall Windows, then block updates. You can put the Windows Update servers on your routers block list, that will prevent your PC from reaching them. There are lots of tutorials online

              ensete This is incorrect. Microsoft often updates system files, including functions related to the display (especially DirectX/DirectDraw/DirectWrite)

              This is very true, but we have tried extensively over a decade to find a link between this MS graphics architecture and our problems and haven't as yet. I have even had dialogue with the graphics team at MS that deals with WinUI and the like, without any fruitful possibilities as to how it could in any way affect dithering etc.

              However for many, including myself, switching between two graphics drivers can trigger symptoms and 'eye jittering' instantly.

              So it's at least worth a try! After being stuck on Windows 1511 for what seemed like forever I am now successfully using fully updated Windows 11 but with my old drivers from 1511 and it is as good as I can get it. And I know others are similar.

                  si_edgey

                  I cleanly reinstalled windows 1709 and immediately disabled windows update in services.msc. For now it's good but i only run basic windows graphics.

                  I need to understand exactly what's the problem so i will do my tests. Thing is now i have problems with wifi and audio drivers as, in my pc, they are not made to work with such an old windows version.

                  If you say that the problem is with graphic drivers and not windows updates, that would be nice.

                  Do you know if the problem is with integrated amd and intel graphics, or also with nvidia and amd dedicated gpus ?

                      si_edgey I am now successfully using fully updated Windows 11 but with my old drivers from 1511 and it is as good as I can get it.

                      Could you remind me again the version of your old drivers and the name of the video chip ?

                          glvn Could you remind me again the version of your old drivers and the name of the video chip ?

                          All the info is in the original post over here. Hope that helps.

                              si_edgey  I did have a period where I started getting headaches again, and I noticed that dithering was periodically being enabled at seemingly random intervals, but probably because some request was made to the graphics drivers. I realised this was happening because my desktop background (colour #c84141) shows banding when everything is set up correctly, and no banding when my display is problematic for me

                              Sorry for repeating my question. If I understand you correctly, you have a banding on a desktop wallpaper from one solid color c84141 ? But how is it possible if only one color is used? ..or OS (Win 10) adds some post-processing/effects(??) that increases the number of color gradations?

                                  Liberator005 No one knows what the problem is. That's the issue. There are cases of people getting symptoms and not getting symptoms for every GPU/OS/Driver combo out there.

                                  si_edgey I have even had dialogue with the graphics team at MS that deals with WinUI and the like, without any fruitful possibilities as to how it could in any way affect dithering etc.

                                  I have spoken with the engineering team at MS as well. They have confirmed the graphics stack in Win10 is much different than Win 7, especially with DirectX

                                      I use Rufus to install win10 1709, that works perfect for my eyes and the nvidia driver " 419.17-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql " that also works perfect for me - I also use AOMEI Backupper to backup my full system so any testing I can quickly wipe and take my pc back to a working state again.

                                      I updated my glasses a few months back and was able to update to the latest version of windows but it was short lived, all the symptoms came back.

                                        glvn Sorry for repeating my question. If I understand you correctly, you have a banding on a desktop wallpaper from one solid color c84141 ? But how is it possible if only one color is used? ..or OS (Win 10) adds some post-processing/effects(??) that increases the number of color gradations?

                                        I wish I had an answer for that! Perhaps the specific colour I chose requires dithering to be displayed, or perhaps it's some other bug in the drivers - sadly everything that is said on this forum has to be qualified as being individual to one person as the condition(s) we have are neurological in nature.

                                        Placebo is also incredibly hard to rule out in many cases, including my own. Delayed onset (and offset) of symptoms mak it almost impossible to diagnose exactly what is going on, you just have to find what works for you and stick with it.

                                          I have had periods where W10 was usable on certain devices. On one laptop (circa 2019), the latest Windows 10 was working fine (with original 2012 display drivers for the laptop) but others here were complaining it was causing symptoms.

                                          More recently I installed the latest Windows 8.1 on a known good 2010 W7 desktop. It caused symptoms within an hour of use despite using the same Windows 7 drivers that have worked fine for years on a W7 install. Installing W10 on the same machine caused issues, too.

                                          However I have access to a more recent Dell latitude laptop with 21H1 installed which isn't perfect but is usable.

                                          The other elephant in the room though, is apps are causing strain independently these days even on good setups. @si_edgey can you run the latest Firefox on your good setup without issue? I cannot use the latest Firefox for more than an hour without discomfort. There are many other apps that are 'unusable' for me on good systems, such as Kodi, Plex Media Center, RetroArch, VLC, MPV & Mednafen.

                                            diop I use the latest Firefox all day every day. It has improved since quantum first came out. I recommend the use of a dark theme, try alpenglow which is one of the bundled options.

                                            For video playing I currently use d3d9 overlay in the madvr renderer along with matching the panel refresh rate to the video eg 23.976. Basically I just upscale chroma with the renderer and have the monitor do the scaling instead of having the gpu do both.

                                              6 months later

                                              Liberator005 Like brighter, sunny like, and font seems different.

                                              I am running 21H2 now on a new laptop (with external display), and I get the same issue. Not sure what got changed from 20H2

                                                  2 months later

                                                  ryans I noticed this today when I was testing different builds on the deck. My regular PC is still 20H2. I noticed right away that 21H2 was different. Maybe more saturated?

                                                    Liberator005 I don't think it's placebo. It's real. It happened to me too. I carried on and adjusted, although the previous version was probably easier on my eyes. It took weeks. I'm now having the same issue with 22H2, but this time I didn't put up with it. I reversed the install. You can easily do that from the Update History. The problem is that my IT admin keeps forcing the update every week, so at a certain point I'll try to adjust to 22H2 too.

                                                        dev