degen Make sure they aren't polarized. Polarized lenses cause me eyestrain and headache. Curved lenses do as well.

Not polarized. Funny you mention polarization though. I got a pack of plastic filters to use in my experiements, 2 of them are polarizors (each a different orientation) and I notice that one of them triggers eye strain, the other does not. Might be something to investigate

degen (Crizal Prevencia was designed to not block out these wavelengths so I try to get this coating on my prescription lenses).

I got a set of glasses made with Crizal Prevencia's. They actually seemed to help for about 2 weeks but then started causing strain themselves just by wearing them, so I discontinued use.

        I'm really bummed about the brightness of the X850E at min brightness. It's really too bright at night and now that this beautiful display is in the living room everyone wants to watch it and use their favourite devices (someone has a movie they want to rent on Apple TV tonight for example, which has caused a lot of confusion at why I don't want to be present. If you thought explaining flicker was bad excusing yourself from a device is 10x worse).

        I think I will return it and stick to the one area where I can control all the variables, the home theatre in the basement (this area is understood by everyone to be my project).

        2017 LG OLED has much better motion handling than last year (some thought that could be a trigger on these TVs? I don't remember) so I want to try them out now.

        It's a shame because the X850E is fine otherwise. This is how I feel about the BenQ EW2750ZL (and even that isn't nearly as bright).

        On the LG C7 100 cd/m2 is 16/100 so there might be more room for adjusting down the brightness, and the review on Rtings makes mention of an "Automatic Brightness Limitor" that reduces the brightness of very white scenes. Gonna have a peak in the store. It is out of my price range though significantly.

        in the end I'm still glad and very lucky to actually have both a usable TV in the basement in my plasma and also a good display in my office in the BenQ EW2440L. I know some don't have any display they could use. Just wish those around would realize it isn't personal (and that watching TV in excess is really low effort and not that good in terms of quality time spent together).

        • JTL replied to this.

          degen I saw a recent model LG OLED TV in store recently and it didn't appear to have PWM at first glance.

          Will visit again and use my Android phone as a remote to control the settings 😃

            9 days later

            ensete My prescription glasses have always given me eyestrain. Tracked it down to the cylindrical correction for my astigmatism. When It's not that important to see small details I switch to a pair of weak reading glasses which are equal to my actual prescription in terms of spherical correction but obviously have no correction for astigmatism. (I never do this for driving)

              10 months later

              MagnuM
              Have you tried Plasma? From what I have read the flicker should be worse than LCD, but some people on this board have said they can use plasma? I may pick one up just to try it. Plasma has to dither to get any color depth because the pixels have only 14 steps of intensity for Red, Blue , or Green, but who really knows? I feel like my condition gets sensitized to specific frequencies maybe, which is why a reductionist approach is so confounding difficult. I know if I stay away from LCD (use only Eink) I have more stamina for using LCD until I get re sensitized, 2 days or so.

                  ShivaWind LoL, I only noticed now that I am the original creator of this thread, yet I have mentioned recently in another thread that I'm able to watch a 3-hour hockey game on my dad's OLED without any great difficulty. Perhaps around the time my dad first got it, things may have been different. He also may have gone through the menus and changed some settings like brightness. I just find that OLED is better than LED for me, but I have not tried a plasma before.

                      MagnuM I'm similar I find OLED easier on the eyes but Plasma is the best. No issues ever from a plasma. Two good experiences with OLED Samsung S2 and Yota phone 2.

                        13 days later

                        I emailed SONY to know about any PWM-free television they may have in the 32-43 inch size, after reading at

                        https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/image-flicker#comparison_2208

                        that there are some giant flicker-free TV, e.g., Sony X850E.

                        Here are sections of their answer:

                        "We regrettably inform you that we have no flicker free products available at the moment.
                        Unfortunately, we do not hold any information related to flicker free products in the future either.
                        ...
                        Please let us forward this valuable idea to our departments in charge so
                        that our future products can meet your expectations."

                        So...the manufacturer does not produce flicker-free TVs but testers measure zero PWM frequency. Maybe I am confusing flicker-free with PWM-free?

                        22 days later

                        I just found this forum and this is my first post. I have two Panasonic Plasma TVs and I find them somewhat more tolerable than regular LED TVs. I always wear polarized blue blocking glasses when I watch TV. I had hoped OLED might be a better solution (or at least an alternative when my plasmas die) but when I've looked at OLED TVs at Best Buy the screen goes totally black. Are all OLED TV screens like this?

                        • JTL replied to this.
                          7 days later

                          My experience: A common factor in all the screens I can't use, and I think others, is polarised light. Plasma TVs do not polarise light, but LCDs do and though OLEDs do not need to be polarised they frequently do as it allows perceived brightness to be increased.

                          I really hope microLED screens will be better.

                          2 months later

                          Jimbo66 On Youtube there is video with two balls, one ball at 24fps and a second ball at 60fps

                          Migraine warning for the video. I expected a side-by-side comparison, but as far is I got/got hit, it's one ball moving back-and-forth, and it hurts.

                            a month later

                            I was looking at those LG OLED TV's. I really want to buy one. They produce such good color and look better then plasma TV's. Asus is releasing a 4k RGB OLED computer monitor I think at the end of the year. This should be flicker free and low blue light because regular OLED is white light passing through color filters.

                            4 months later

                            I compared rtings' PWM results of the C6, C7, and C8 models, and it seems the 60 Hz flicker became less spikey each year.

                            C6: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/lg/c6/c6-backlight-large.jpg
                            C7: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/lg/c7/c7-backlight-large.jpg
                            C8: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/lg/c8/c8-backlight-large.jpg

                            It may be coincidence though and they just measured the flicker at a different distance or used a different sensor.

                            I imagine a big problem with any OLED TV you're going to get (or any new TV) is the OS it is running off is going to add strain no matter what these days.

                            Realistically we should probably stick to monitors with something else for audio if we're looking for something new since "dumb tv's" are basically not a thing now.

                            Alienware just announced a 55" OLED 4k 120hz monitor. This is DUMB for a monitor - 55 inches for a computer monitor? Get out of town. But used like a TV? Maybe this could be useable with the right software and hardware behind it since hopefully it won't have any issues like when running off new Android or webOS etc. assuming the monitor isn't programmed to do a whole lot to "improve the image"

                              Soreeyes I saw that thing. JOLED has made three RGB OLED panels for 3 different monitors as well.

                                I wish I could change the title of this thread, as my dad's OLED TV turned out to be OK for me afterwards. I know he was tinkering with some settings after, so maybe that helped? Or maybe I had strained eyes when I first viewed it and was sensitive to all light? Who knows.

                                Anyways, he unfortunately had to swap that 55" LG OLED out after 2 years because of burn-in problems. Through the Best Buy extended warranty that he bought with the TV (that actually paid for itself and then some for once), he was able to swap it for a 65" Sony LED (I don't know the model number). It's a big and gorgeous TV. I went over there on Saturday to watch the hockey game, and I seemed to have no real issues with it.

                                Also, previously in the day, I had attended a Super Smash Brothers Ultimate tournament with around 100-200 people. Since the Nintendo Switch has a digital A/V signal, the most preferred setup was having about a 24" computer monitor, of which there were several. I was assuming they were all LED, but had no way of knowing for sure. The lighting was also pretty dark, as it was held in a comedy club / bar like scene. I did not have any issues with an "LED headache" from looking at these displays.

                                This is a sharp contrast to Wednesday afternoon when I looked at a colleague's "known bad" Dell U2713H monitor for less than 15 seconds and got an immediate migraine-like headache that stuck with me for the rest of the day. I was under the impression that all displays containing an LED backlight give me the same issues. Now a few exceptions have shown up that add to the conundrum. For some reason, I seem to be fine with:

                                • The Nintendo Switch
                                • Most LED TVs
                                • Gaming monitors?

                                Maybe you all are onto something that it's the GPU where the issue lies. You've been mentioning that Intel is worse than nVidia for using dithering. Well, at work we have Dell Optiplex systems that have integrated Intel graphics (Intel HD Graphics 4000).

                                A test I wish I could do is be hooked up to an EEG and look at that problematic monitor at work. I bet my brain activity would light up like a Christmas Tree during the test.

                                Today I learned that Panasonic doesn't use Android nor LG's WebOS but a custom OS based on Firefox OS, which was abandoned some years ago. Firefox OS is based on Linux and uses the old Gecko rendering engine (not Quantum). I think if one day I try an OLED TV again, I will choose Panasonic.

                                Guys, it's the SOURCE. Not the display. There are very few BAD monitors for me, but lots of bad SOURCES. The same TV that is warm and wonderful when watching cable on an old shitty DVR... but the Roku3 causes instant strain on the same TV with the same settings. On my living room TV, the XBox 360 is fine and the PS3 is fine but the switch hurts... it's the SOURCE. They're all outputting 1080p, but something is different about the newer output chips.

                                Note - this doesn't apply to everyone. For some people it really IS the PWM. For some people it really is the OLED brightness. But not me. For me it's some kind of source flicker (FRC? Dither?).

                                  Gurm I still can't find a monitor that doesn't hurt my eyes no matter what I try. At this point I believe I can't tolerate LED and CCFL and it will not work no matter what I try. I have tried so many different combinations. I do know that two phones that are OLED have given me no pain. Plasma TV works for me no matter what is hooked up to it. I have a Dell 2005fp I can use but it gives me a headache. It didn't ruin me like a dithering headache because that's worst. The Dell 2001fp i own which is supposed to be flicker free didn't feel good at all probably because of dithering. I want to keep going down the OLED road as for it seems the most promising.

                                    dev