evthelegend

Polarisation might be part of it for you, though there probably isn't any polarisation in e-ink screens - I could be wrong, easy to test with some polarised film or glasses. There are some big threads on here on polarisation that are worth reading if you haven't already.

There are two other factors to consider, people sit far away from projectors which can help with eye defects, and the resolution of your projector is low which could help a bit too. I used to have a tv that was much more comfortable when watching non hd channels.

Gurm

carguy0625

Thanks all, since my screen issues are basically cured now I don't check the forum as much. No one from the UK has spoken to me so lets open it up to Europe and the Americas. Whoever gets it first should bare in mind it might get hit with some hefty import taxes.

Do please have a read of my post below:
Seagull's Success Story - Ringing the Bell - LEDStrain Forum

I've not heard the term Visual Cortical Hyperexcitability before, but it looks exactly like what I described. I believe the cause is insufficient serotonin / a weak serotonin neuron network whose purpose is to regulate brain activity and prevent regions of the brain becoming over excited.

wlmsn

I'm really glad you've seen this, because the most interesting way of viewing the framework I've described is in the context of someone who adheres to the diet I describe but still has symptoms. I know you say you only eat dairy 3x year, but that seems infrequent enough that it should not have too much effect if we consider Neu5Gc alone.

The best point I can make to you is that Neu5Gc is a discovered and well researched food born cause of autoimmune disease. There are certainly others that we do not know about or why it has an effect, for example, we know gluten in cereals causes the auto immune celiac disease though we don't know the science as to why.

There are likely other things in food other than Neu5Gc which will have similar effects, in that they trick susceptible people's immune system's into thinking there is an infection. Unfortunately, in the absence of hard science you will need to discover them yourself. But I can give you a very handy hint to make it easier. The closer the chemical is to what is normally present in the human body, the weaker the immune system response will be, but the longer it will last. This is because our immune systems are designed to avoid attacking our own bodies, but they will if forced to. Now consider gluten, in susceptible people this produces a strong and immediate response, because gluten has no human analogue there is no reason for our immune systems to go easy on it. With this in mind, veganism is a sensible approach to take, because it cuts out animals which are close to our cell biology where we'd expect low and slow immune responses. Instead you'd only see the much more rapid responses to plant based food allergens which would be much easier to observe and eliminate in the future.

So I suppose my first piece of advice would be to track what you eat and correlate it to your general inflammation symptoms, being aware that the effects of animal foods can have a long lasting effect that won't be easily spotted day to day, but rather month to month and year to year.

My second piece of advice would be to be very sceptical. Our brains and immune systems are extremely complex, so our experiences and causes could be completely different. Given the slow timeline over which I saw improvements, I'd only encourage people to follow my path if they also want to make general improvements to their health.

Zodios

It is also a CNS depressant meaning it will decrease brain activity, it could be fulfilling the same role as an adequate serotonin neuron network by reducing excessive brain activity caused by looking at a screen.

Alcohol also increases cortisol production, a natural pain killer and anti inflammatory steroid.

Whilst neurotransmitters are found in large quantity in our intestines, generally neurotransmitters can't cross the blood brain barrier. They need to be made from precursors within the brain. I've tried various GABA increasing supplements in the past, they made me feel calmer and generally happier but they did not affect my screen tolerance.

Zodios

you are welcome.

Serotonin's effects on the brain are very complex. SSRIs do not increase the amount of serotonin, rather they change where that serotonin is found within the brain. They are re-uptake inhibitors, meaning they prevent its movement. Research shows that SSRIs actually decrease the amount of serotonin significantly

Source showing decrease by 10-14 times.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0004563219880567

Source showing association between amount of serotonin decrease, and mental health response to SSRIs.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30831543/

Abstract

A short description of where I was, and where I am now. 10 years ago I was unable to use smartphones, modern computer monitors, new TVs, graphics cards, LED light bulbs without experience headaches or migraines that would persist for days. Now I am able to use all of these devices with a short adjustment period of several hours to weeks at the very worst. The symptoms I experience during the adjustment period are manageable with basic pain killers, and often by simply taking regular screen breaks. After adjustment I am able to use the devices without issues unless there is some major change to the device or my environment where re-adjustment time might be needed. There is still room for improvement, which I expect to continue, however my issues with screens are now minor compared with where I was originally.

Background

A more general background to my medical history and experience with screens. Some types of display would consistently trigger migraines, typically IPS screens. Graphics cards and software would cause more conventional headaches, and OLED screens caused a painful pinching sensation in my eyes as well as conventional headaches and mild migraines.

I also experienced severe gastrointestinal issues, fevers occurring predominately at night, muscle pain/inflammation serious enough to affect my kidney function after exercise, and an anxiety disorder.

All of the above has improved from being an serious issue, to either disappearing to becoming manageable with minor interventions.

What I did and experienced

Around 6 years ago I noticed the muscle pains I experienced had become much less frequent and less severe. I noted that for the past two years I had shifted my diet from being very high in red meat (800gram daily) to largely vegetarian but still eating diary daily and occasional red meat consumption. I did some searching and found that red meat / diary contains an inflammatory molecule (Neu5Gc) linked to various diseases. With this knowledge, I cut out all diary and red meat from my diet.

Within a few days my night fevers had entirely stopped, and my gastrointestinal symptoms had improved, confirming what I had read. What was entirely unexpected was the effect this dietary change appeared to have on my screen issues.

Below is a brief timeline of how my symptoms changed year by year:

·         Years 1

o   Much worse migraine pain

o   Gastro, muscle pain, mental health improvement

·         Year 2

o   Lighter migraines compared to prior year

o   Able to adapt to devices which caused minor issues

o   Gastro, muscle pain, mental health improvement

·         Years 3 - 4

o   Migraines continue to become less painful

o   Recovery time reduces

o   Able to adapt to devices which caused minor issues much faster

o   Able to adapt to devices which caused moderate symptoms

o   Gastro, muscle pain, mental health improvement

·         Years 5 – 6

o   Migraines continue to become less painful, generally ‘silent’ ie without actual pain but other migraine symptoms

o   Recovery time reduces, in many cases trivial ~30mins to an hour

o   Able to adapt to devices which caused major symptoms

o   Gastro, muscle pain, mental health improvement

Science

Here I will outline the scientific framework which explains my experience above. There is a quick summary below showing each key link in the framework, with more detailed explanations with links to scientific papers underneath.

eat read meat / diary ->

digested into small cell fragments ->

those red meat cell fragments used as spare parts in our human cells creating hybrid cells (NEU-5GC) ->

hybrid cells are attacked by immune system ->

immune system lowers level of serotonin as part of immune response (among other things) ->

low serotonin results in weak serotogenic neuron network in brain ->

impairs ability for brain to regulate activity ->

causes migraines/pain in response to flickering / unstable / blurry images

Neu5Gc

Neu5Gc is a cell component found in most mammals, but only in small amounts in humans. Human cells use a similar cell component Neu5Ga, however Neu5Gc from food is similar enough that it can be integrated into human cells. Unfortunately, because the Neu5Gc is not human in origin, any cells which contain it may be attacked by the immune system creating inflammation and other effects.

Sources for general overview of Neu5Gc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Glycolylneuraminic_acid

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161019160201.htm

Sources detailing human cell uptake of Neu5Gc

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC218710/

 sources showing Neu5Gc causes inflammation / increases cancer risk

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01721-8

autoimmunity

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4070528/

Response to chronic infection

The above shows that Neu5Gc can trigger an immune response. This means the immune has mistaken the human-Neu5Gc cells as an infection. When an infection occurs, one of the secondary response after the immune system attacks is to reduce the availability of vitamins/minerals/nutrition which could fuel an infection. Part of this response is to reduce the amount of amino acids in our body, one such amino acid is l-tryptophan. This is important because this amino acid is used to create serotonin in our bodies and brain.

Source showing chronic infection lowers serotonin

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4527356/

serotonin

This will focus on the role serotonin plays in migraine as it is well researched and documented. I am assume many of these conclusions also apply to conventional headaches, but the link is less clear. Study of the role of serotonin is complex, with many contradictory findings. Some studies show that people who experience migraines have low serotonin:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4117050/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3452194/

Other studies show higher serotonin levels in migraineurs.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213158218300160

However the brains responses to serotonin generally not working correctly in migraineurs is a common theme in research.

https://thejournalofheadacheandpain.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10194-016-0711-0

Specific aspects of serotonin function have been found to cause migraine pain, where higher levels of specific receptor activity cause greater pain. I believe this is why my migraine pain initially increased. I had higher levels of serotonin activating receptors, but as is explained below, had not yet developed the beneficial aspects of higher serotonin levels which prevent migraines.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/7CFAE08C4FA8EFC3901A0848C2545336/S0317167100000123a.pdf/the-biology-of-serotonin-receptors-focus-on-migraine-pathophysiology-and-treatment.pdf

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2045831/

These papers describe how serotonin neuron/receptor networks control/regulate brain activity

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-022-01213-3#:~:text=Serotonin%20regulates%20behavior%20by%20modulating,aggression%2C%20anxiety%20and%20depression3.

https://www.nature.com/articles/1395346

With these papers going further into how serotonin receptors control brain wave frequency. Think of this as similar to the clock speed of a CPU. Higher clock speeds speed up thinking and processing, but come at a cost of higher energy consumption. Like a CPU, we don’t want our brains to be running at a high frequency unless it is necessary because of harmful effects.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3282112/

https://www.jneurosci.org/content/30/6/2211

These papers theorise that migraines are a protective response against the brain working too hard and damaging itself due to build up of toxic metabolic byproducts. This is analogous to how we experience muscle pain due to build of lactic acid after exercise.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987716305035

https://orbi.uliege.be/bitstream/2268/247255/1/Gross%20et%20al%20Metabolic%20f

How does this link to screens? Flickering light induces a change in brain frequency / metabolic rate in response to the frequency itself. This can cause harmful effects.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11355381/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_vertigo

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8710722/

In migraineurs this effect is stronger. This means that people who experience migraines are more sensitive to the effects of screen flicker.

https://jov.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2770320

To summarise so far:

Insufficient serotonin receptors prevent control of brain activity in response to flickering light sources,

This triggers a migraine to protect the brain,

If a migraine is not triggered, brain disfunction could lead to a regular headache or other neurological symptoms.

This paper below is quite important. It shows in mice how low levels of serotonin (the neurotransmitter) results in lower levels of serotonin receptors and neurons (the bits of the brain that respond to the neurotransmitter). It also shows that these mice  can recover when normal levels of serotonin return.

https://www.eneuro.org/content/4/2/ENEURO.0376-16.2017

Summary

A chronic immune system response to red meat/diary lowered my serotonin levels, increasing sensitivity to flickering light, resulting in migraines and other symptoms. I experienced a very slow improvement, this slow response to dietary changes seems to be caused by two factors:

It takes a long time for some cells affected by neu5gc to be replaced, some types of cells can survive for decades.

The brain takes time to grow new cells

This results in slow improvement as cells turn over and my brain develops new neural pathways which respond to serotonin. The Initial worsening of my migraines was caused by higher serotonin in absence of stronger serotonin neuron networks which take longer to develop.

How does this relate to other forum members experiences? Many forum members including myself found some relief from eye patching. I hypothesize that that eye patching reduces brain’s visual processing workload by correcting a visual defect, this lowers metabolic rate / activity, making screens less likely to trigger migraine or produce other symptoms of the brain working too hard.

Please do not read this as a fundamental explanation of our symptoms. We are complex machines and there may be other pathways which lead to our symptoms. I am expecting there to be some long term vegan forum members to whom this explanation cannot be correct. It may not even be the reason my symptoms improved, but it is the best explanation I have found.

Kind Regards,

Rob

(A picture of me receiving my doctorate in statistics & engineering)

Moderation of public discourse is important to keep it to a theme and produce the desired outcome. Whilst this forum is generally open to out of the box thinking, but what you posted was clearly a bit too far and resulting in ridicule rather than anything useful.

"I would mention again that I believe this forum has been in existence for over a decade, and that no truly promising approaches have been found thus far"

This is frankly quite insulting. Many forum members have found eye patching to be an effective treatment and even a cure. I myself have been treating my screen issues with diet and am nearly ready to write my own celebratory post. We have shared software solutions which have provided relief. We have provided support to those who through themselves alone in this affliction. It is a force for good.

You can either keep your discussions more grounded, or take your woo woo somewhere else.

bluetail

Of course it can go to Germany, but I live in the UK so I think it makes sense to send it around the UK first. It should get import taxes when shipped outside UK to Germany, but we I think that can be avoided by marking it as a gift or of low value, of course that means it cannot be insured during postage.

If not one from the UK speaks up it can go to Germany first

Apologies for the lack of review, I've been unwell recently so haven't wanted to upset my eyes too much. If anyone in the UK is really keen to review it let me know and I'll start circulating the tablet amongst forum users.

Ivan_P

Hi Ivan,

Most of the devices gave me immediate symptoms. I found I could adapt to those which gave me eye pain/conventional headaches, but I could not adapt to those which gave me migraines, immediate or not. However, my screen issues have improved massively since then and now I can also adapt to screens which give me migraines. My advice would be to experiment and see how it works for you.

Daylight_Co

True to their word, a daylight tablet arrived today, now I feel bad for doubting them.

True to my word, I will be sending it on a tour of forum members to try out. If anyone has suggestions on how to do this please jump in, my thoughts so far:

Collate where everyone is located so we can avoid posting it across borders as much as possible to minimise any risk of import taxes, I'm in the UK, so we'd go through all the UK people first.

Alternatively, we can collate who has any special equipment for testing and prioritise them.

Keep it only to longstanding forum members to minimise the chance of it disappearing.

If you like it, buy one and send the original on to the next person!

Given we're all strangers on the internet, any ideas on how to keep it from disappearing would be very welcome.

hansennnnn

its easy to make a patch in a cone shape that won't touch an open eye

I did some research into this a while back. Many transparent plastics convert linear polarisation to circular, the degree of conversion is variable. This is how some LCD phones which should be linear, appear circularly polarised to some degree when testing, it will either be because they have a plastic screen or a plastic screen protector fitted.

Does this affect eyestrain? our brains have to put more effort into processing polarised light to correct for some optical effects ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidinger%27s_brush ). This might have some effect on symptoms.

Can you avoid polarised light? LCDs and OLEDs all use polarisation, you can either convert this to circular with a plastic screen protector, or you can remove it entirely by laying tracing paper over the screen - this scatters the light enough to remove polarisation. The latter helped me a lot, but I can't be sure it was because of removing polarisation, the tracing paper also gives a very matte and quite blurry effect.

hansennnnn

My screen symptoms can get a lot worse with food, though for me the triggers are primarily cooking oil and some spices.

Sounds like a 'silent migraine', that's a migraine without the pain but with all the other effects.

wlmsn

Some examples:

4 years ago it took me 6months to adjust to a new OLED smartphone,
2years ago it took me 10ish 20minute sessions over a month to adapt to a new OLED smartphone,
1year ago it took me a 2hours over a weekend to adapt to a new OLED laptop which I then took to work on the Monday,
Recently, it took me about 20-30 hours to adjust to some software that gave me eyestrain

wlmsn

Just red meat and dairy. I did it originally to treat a variety of digestive disorders which improved immediately after I stopped, and continue to improve ever since. I only noticed the improvement in migraines/eye strain a year or two in which was a nice bonus. Now five years later I still get symptoms from screens, but they are always temporary, a few days of exposure to a new device is all I need to adapt and be able to use it. I will at some point do a big post on the science behind why this worked.