madmozg I can easily see with my peripheral eyesight how darker objects are flickering on MBA M2.
With MBA M2 I'm also having dry eyes and very slight symptoms because of that small pwm, I wish I can turn that sht off
Yup exactly. I was able to notice the same thing with the M2 Air flickering in the corner of my vision with my own eyes too! Especially while reading long blocks of text like the software update terms and conditions popup. It didn't matter whether Stillcolor was activated, I could still notice flicker.
Also get dry eyes when looking at the M2 Air (especially my left eye).
However, surprisingly, it's not purely because of "basic IPS" that strain is lower on the M2 TB Pro — because the M1 Air also has "basic IPS" with no notch, but actually flickers on camera in the same way the M2 Air does!
⬆️ EDIT: Even though both M1 Air and M2 Air flicker with a "slight brightness dip after each frame" in a 240hz recording — I actually find the M1 Air MUCH more comfortable than the M2 Air!
So this specific type of flicker may not actually be the "core" problem, at least for me.
It's something else about the M2 Air that makes it "worse" than both the M1 Air (which ALSO flickers on camera) and TB Pros (which DON'T flicker on camera). ⬆️
As we know, the M2 TB Pro doesn't flicker on camera, so the M1 Air and M2 TB Pro panels are entirely different beasts despite appearing nearly the same in Apple's official spec comparison.
I highly suspect the M2 Pro has a true 8-bit display.
In comparison, my M1 Air unit had a noticeable "scanline-like alternating pattern" (which the TB Pro doesn't) when I looked really close up at the pixels.
⬆️ EDIT: After using the M1 Air for much longer, I do not think this is FRC.
The M1 Air certainly has a "every other scanline alternates between brighter and darker in a striped pattern" quality to its LCD that the M2 TB Pro doesn't, but it doesn't bother me. ⬆️
The M2 Touch Bar Pro seems to have no TCON-level temporal dithering at all. All temporal dithering on the TB Pro seems to happen exclusively on the GPU and can be entirely disabled. Static elements like a non-blinking text cursor become entirely still to me after activating Stillcolor on the M2 TB Pro.
⬆️ ⚠️ EDIT: only true on Touch Bar Pros with "00000000" in panel ID. TB Pros with "FMX" panels still feel like they're "moving" even with Stillcolor. ⚠️
This is very unique from both the M1 and M2 Air, where even with Stillcolor it feels like something is still ever so slightly moving around the text cursor.
madmozg MBP 13 TB is good, but the display is so small and outdated in compare with 15-16 inches.. 🙁
Honestly, I see the outdated screen form factor with large bezels to be actually helpful in reducing eye strain!
I've always had problems with all screens with slim bezels, since in order to look at the corner of the screen my eyes need to figure out whether to focus at close distance… but then start drifting away and suddenly attempt to a huge focus shift to whatever is behind the screen, since the bezel is so close to where the screen ends and the rest of the real world starts. My eyes get really confused whether they should be looking at the edge of the screen or whatever is behind the screen and keep alternating back and forth.
I love screens with large bezels and I will defend chunky bezels until the end of time, as it gives my eyes "breathing room" to much more to easily focus and lock onto the very corners of the screen.
I agree that it's very unfortunate there isn't any Apple Silicon laptop like the M2 Touch Bar Pro with a larger than 13" screen. I can't speak much on this though, as I generally prefer 13" or smaller screens because they help me move around more — I can easily use my laptop in a bunch of different places and postures throughout the day. 15" displays are cool, they look awesome on a desk, but IMO they end up not being versatile enough for my workflow.
In the end, I'll take a fully usable laptop with still very much modern internals (the M2 TB Pros, EDIT: specifically the ones with comfortable panels) over an unusable laptop with more fashionable aesthetics (the M2/M3 Air) any day.
In addition, outside of the ugly Touch Bar, I still think everything else about the M2 TB Pro looks very beautiful!
I am SO satisfied that I have found a Mac laptop from the current decade — one that still has more powerful hardware than any other laptop I own — that finally works for me. That is something to cherish.
⬆️
EDIT:
This laptop ended up being the M1 Air for me instead because I was tired of playing the M2 TB Pro panel lottery LOL
On the other hand, I got a good panel M1 Air with "no glare" first try!
Even though there is an additional "PWM-like flickering issue" seen on all M1/M2/M3 Airs — it does not seem to affect me on specifically the [M1] Air!
This was surprising, because I can't use the [M2] Air. That means this "brightness dips" flicker is probably NOT the culprit though, because I can use [M1] Air fine despite it flickering on camera too.
However, I still recommend M2 TB Pros with comfortable panels ("00000000" in ID), because they are the ONLY Apple Silicon MacBooks that have no "camera-detectable PWM" if that matters to you!
However, I do NOT recommend M2 TB Pros with "FMX" in the panel ID.
⬆️
By the way, I just sold my previous 14" mini-LED MacBook Pro. I am never looking at it again in my entire life. 😌