Videos of MacBook Air M2 flickering

ledstrain-alpha

If you guys go in to ColorSync and there check the model no and supplier. Maybe you can get more info?

In ColorSync my mid 2014 15" MBP says this:

Manufactory: 00000610
Model: 0000A022
Serial number: 00000000
Manufactory date: CD238700

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

ledstrain-alpha we've already tried this, on apple silicon the color profile will always say the same model number & manufacturer regardless of even if the panel looks entirely different

instead, there is a different terminal for apple silicon command to run to get the panel-serial-number

(the one we were already using: ioreg -lw0 | grep -e "panel-serial-number" -e coverglass)

that's the only known way to get panel info on apple silicon

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DannyD2 Interesting, really glad that you're liking it! How is it going so far in terms of strain?

⬇️

⚠️EDIT: THE BELOW IS ONLY TRUE on M2 Touch Bar Pros with "00000000" in panel ID.

**On the other hand, M2 TB Pros with "FMX" at the beginning of the panel ID cause strain!**⚠️

⬇️

Strain levels are going really good for me so far, possibly there are still certain things that still would be easier to look at on an older Windows laptop with a non-retina screen but outside of that there is still so much good. I am totally getting the feeling of "over-the-top intense and unrelenting information density" at the highest level on this M2 TB Pro with Stillcolor. I can see so much at once on the screen at one time, applications that have very cluttered user interfaces look incredible on here instead of disorienting.

Grids of images feel like I'm seeing the whole grid at the same time (instead of the image I'm looking at feeling "more in focus or 'more prominent' than the others"), this laptop with Stillcolor is fully able to expand my field of vision which I literally can't say about any other Apple Silicon laptop I tried. One example is the expanded grid of wallpapers in System Settings, on the M2 TB Pro I can clearly process it as "a uniform 4-column grid" and am able to quickly scan through it — instead of feeling like I need to "read" it one-by-one or only two-ish columns at a time.

One of the biggest differences to the M2 TB Pro and the M2 Air is that on the Air, whenever there was a really large object on the screen (such as a really big logo or when zooming into one object on a webpage), my eyes would try to respond to it as if they were trying to focus on something "really close to me" — like they would actually need to change their plane of focus — which would cause lots of strain. When I tried to force myself to keep focusing at the physical distance of the screen, on both Airs this would cause the "extremely large object" to go double vision.

However, on the M2 TB Pro, I can view objects of any size without even needing to refocus my eyes in the slightest. On a lot of other displays I need to refocus after zooming into something with Ctrl+Scroll accessibility zoom. On this display, I can maintain the same exact focus throughout the entire zooming gesture with zero effort and it just feels so satisfying.

Moving over the edge of a window and the cursor changing from the pointer to the resize arrow is also not causing my eyes to "vibrate" and refocus! It almost feels weird because I'm so used to that happening on other Macs! Same improvement with hovering over items in menu bar menus as the colored highlight moves between lines!

Window shadows are also noticeably less distracting which is really interesting, I haven't thought about the shadows that much at all while using the M2 TB Pro. On M2 Air I would still sometimes get distracted by them, even after activating Stillcolor.

⬆️ EDIT: ONLY TRUE ON "00000000" M2 TB PRO PANELS (and actually true on my M1 Air too, which is also much better at this than the M2 Air).

However, M2 TB Pro "FMX" panels are MUCH worse at this. ⬆️

Colors also look beautiful, there's also this really interesting effect I'm getting where after I look away from the computer colors also look better in the real world as well? Like so many other displays (even usable ones) I feel "tire out my eyes enough" where I can't process colors & details in the real world to the fullest extent. Walking around after using this laptop though I swear the world looks more vivid to me 👀

I thought that was a coincidence at first but I tried M2 TB Pro for a while, then other usable laptops, then the TB Pro again and was noticing a significantly different feel when looking at the world around me after using this compared to everything else. Given the fact that even my usable devices (like my 2012 Windows laptop) still show PWM on camera when displaying dark gray, maybe this is one of the benefits of using something that is truly PWM-free?

Finally, my left eye is twitching a lot less while using the M2 TB Pro, I keep expecting it to happen as I usually do with other Mac displays and yet it just doesn't most of the time.

⬆️ EDIT: ONLY TRUE ON "00000000" TB PRO PANELS

Also pinging @async here, I think they would find these details useful.

async

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs my eyes would try to respond to it as if they were trying to focus on something "really close to me" — like they would actually need to change their plane of focus — which would cause lots of strain.

This is why I disabled window shadows with yabai. Having simulated 3d that should be ignored at all times can't be good. That and the fact that it might create color variations that need to be dithered to be dithered, so in theory most of the web uses regular sRGB colors that stand still, and the shadow around the window flickers to drag away your focus. This doesn't just affect binocular vision, as the lens also tries to focus. Not entirely sure how focus works in the brain, but I would guess that it just tries muscle movement if it detects strain/blurryness, until it pattern matches sharpness. I actually think most old lower res monitors solve this issue by being able to see the pixel grid that can be used for focusing at the right distance.

If you still have any of the bad machines, try to put kitchen plastic wrap on the upper half of the screen, and look at text pretty close. Attach it properly to not give reflections, but as you can see it has a mild texture and it is significantly easier to get the text and background to feel "flat".

async

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Colors also look beautiful, there's also this really interesting effect I'm getting where after I look away from the computer colors also look better in the real world as well? Like so many other displays (even usable ones) I feel "tire out my eyes enough" where I can't process colors & details in the real world to the fullest extent. Walking around after using this laptop though I swear my eyes are in much better shape, the world looks more vivid to me 👀

I think the high gamut ones colors messes things up a bit. Used my iPhone with green/red color filter (red becomes pink, and red is non existant) and high brightness on a clouded day with mostly white light. I swear the entire world looked off afterwards.

Wouldn't be suprised if there are either some type of "calibration" going on in the brain for the different receptors, based on the strongest observed signal for the different colors.

Also I'm not sure if focusing on pure color stuff is good at all. Obviously you wouldn't ever find something that emits pure blue or red light wavelengths anywhere. I would guess that while following the focus of something the brain is used to getting signals from the different receptors, and for example following scrolling blue links all day doesn't exactly help to keep things in sync.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

async This is why I disabled window shadows with yabai.

Yes, this is what I did on my 14" M1 Max MBP. but what's really nice about M2 TB Pro is I don't even notice any fake 3D effect at all, so window shadows actually don't even bother me on here.

On the M1 Air and especially M2 Air I still noticed some fake 3D.

But on the M2 TB Pro stuff looks entirely flat — even photos! — which is great.

Edit: Since then I've found screens that are MANY times more "flat" and more comfortable than this one was: for example, AUO303E 1600x900 TN Panel, which can be installed into a 14 inch ThinkPad and is the most comfortable screen I've found as of Nov 2024, it's better than all of my old monitors including CCFL ones

(but only AUO303E panels manufactured in 2015 and earlier are good though. A 2018 version had issues.)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

async I think the high gamut ones colors messes things up a bit. Used my iPhone with green/red color filter (red becomes pink, and red is non existant) and high brightness on a clouded day with mostly white light. I swear the entire world looked off afterwards.

I'd generally believe this in the past, because it's true with most screens — but this seems to not be true with the M2 Touch Bar Pro even though it is wide gamut.

On this specific laptop (with Stillcolor), after using it even looking at super bright P3 colors on the screen, the world still looks fine and actually possibly even more colorful afterwards. This is why I'm saying the M2 TB Pro is so surprisingly unique for me in a good way.

However that only happens on this laptop.

I agree that on other laptops (that likely use PWM, since every other laptop I own except the M2 TB Pro actually all have that flicker on dark gray on 240hz slow motion!) even with Stillcolor/ditherig.exe, looking at bright colors and then stopping using the laptop, yes stuff will look really off afterwards.

But somehow, stuff does not look off after using the M2 TB Pro!

Apple-Meta-USA

Also, my 2019 MacBook Pro 16 inch is not flickering in 240 FPS iPhone camera at all.

As notebookcheck said it's 130KHZ PWM, but My eyes feel good.

Its panel is pretty good.

ledstrain-alpha

I have this panel on my new Macbook AIR M3 15"

but don't know what it means? Good or bad? 🙂

| | "coverglass-serial-number" = <"FP1H1T0041900000CM">

| | "raw-panel-serial-number" = <"FP1H1T0041900000CM+A+5ARP330154B0FK+PROD+B347234773491+Y12230613Y61830624+328T2329KP8SS00A37S320Y39J36F37P81090J7A3B96518+823287320350620735062535062535062B35063153506263">

DannyD2

I finally got one of the MBP 13-inch M2 TB machines with the "FMX" panel to compare with the one I have with the "DCN" panel. The full serial number of the new one is FMX35260FF9NTJJA9+GE1S3B02911467+PROD+Y342334423453+12352521352513352512352620+K72130782K80331107+645052230KP8C500TTCYYGAHDC2638520+S47U689584S47U689584S47U689584S47U6895.

My initial impressions of this are generally similar to those of DisplayShouldNotBeTVs. The display uniformity and "sharpness" (for lack of a better word) are slightly better on the FMX panel, but it does seem a little rougher on the eyes for some reason.

Using a Calibrite Display SL colorimeter, the DCN panel measures slightly more accurate, but it's a small difference. Neither machine shows any obvious backlight flicker at 120fps, unlike my MBA M2 15-inch. (However, it is possible there is some low-level fluctuation that I'm unable to measure. Certainly it is at least an order of magnitude less than the 15-inch MBA though.) All of this is with Sonoma.

I'm leaning towards keeping the one with the DCN panel. It feels really easy on the eyes.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DannyD2 I'm leaning towards keeping the one with the DCN panel. It feels really easy on the eyes.

Yup, you're correct, definitely keep DCN instead.

M2 TB Pro "FMX" panel (the one on my second M2 TB) looks sharper and more uniform "at first" with "slightly" more strain, but the longer you use it, the nausea and lightheadedness REALLY begins to get intense. It took a few days for this to really hit.

On the other hand, never noticed any pain like that at all on my first M2 TB Pro panel, even after using that one for basically the same amount of days too! My first M2 TB felt more comfortable like your DCN panel, no nausea.

(The reason I returned my first M2 TB is that uniformity was REALLY bad on mine, the right half of the screen straight up showed whites as light greens instead. Didn't have enough color accuracy for design work. But despite that [really obvious] uniformity defect, that first panel felt much more relaxing and didn't cause ANYWHERE near as much strain! Seems like no one else has got a uniformity defect THAT bad though which is great to hear LOL)

The best way to compare DCN and FMX is to set them both to low hardware backlight level. The problem I had at this point on my FMX is that it looked like it was "still too bright" even though it was dimmer, like turning down backlight didn't make colors more relaxing "like it's supposed to".

On the other hand, I remember my first panel actually "properly" getting dim (unlike FMX).

Even at the minimum backlight level possible, the FMX panel still felt like "I wanted to turn it down more" or "it's still too saturated" which is when I finally noticed what felt off about the FMX panel.

FMX also has much more glare and "text glow" than other M2 TB Pro panel types IMO, at least on my unit.

Keep DCN. Return FMX!

Both me and madmozg have had FMX panels that caused the same really bad nausea for both of us, so I'd say that it's very likely all FMX panels are bad for sensitive users.

DannyD2

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Thanks for your comments! That's what I decided to do. I've had the DCN panel for three weeks now and am still really impressed with it. This machine (M2 Pro TB 13) with the DCN panel is probably the best screen I've used in at least 10 years. Very easy on the eyes.

Thanks for all your posts and observations, BTW! I would never have tried out this machine without your enthusiasm and that of others.

asus389

Is there any pattern to which M2 MBPro 13 inch computers get the "good" panel vs the "bad" one? Configuration (memory/storage), color, etc? My 2017 13 inch is on its last legs and I was going to try to pick up the M2 13 inch MBPro to try it based on good results here. I guess I should try to find a refurbished one at this point? Or maybe new old stock?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

asus389 It's basically random. After you get it the panel ID having many long sequences of zeroes indicates a better one. If it only has a few zeroes it's a worse one.

asus389

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Any advice on good refurb sellers? It doesn't look like they are on the apple.com refurbished site at the moment.

asus389

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Do you still have either of the MB Pro TB 13s? If you do can you post what it says in the ColorSync Utility about the panel?

Click on the Devices Tab, click on your Display, then click "open" on the "Factory Profile" section and then look for line 16. It should say "Apple Display Make and Information". Is there any difference between the two laptops?

Here's a screenshot of my 2017 MBP 13 for reference:

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

asus389 I don't have either anymore (regret returning the first one since it was better, second one was bad, ended up stuck with M1 Air which is also bad… I don't use MacBooks at all anymore tho since I switched to a ThinkPad with 1600x900 TN panel which is SO much better)

However, I tested this exact color profiles thing back when I tried both! Both had the same exact information in the profile…

I'm pretty sure the color profile stopped carrying LCD manufacturer information a while ago (I remember it not working on some of the newer Intel Macs too)

The difference in panel IDs between Apple Silicon Macs can only be found through the terminal command mentioned earlier in this thread.

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