Usable Smartphones?

hpst

Markus Please try the HTC U11.

What software/revision?

Markus

hpst lastest firmware running Android 8.

jasonpicard

hpst My idea is that you can try as many LED and CCFL screens as you want but you never remove the variables of motion blur, true blacks, good spectrum unless you use OLED so it becomes hard to prove what the actual cause is. I don't think dithering can be the cause for everyone because Plasma TV's used it and CRT's use it and DLP. If you can tolerate any of those you eliminate dither because it is worse on those devices. Panel Type is another big thing that I believe would affect a lot of people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5G3uwCxiAk - Plasma dithering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD7mNw5McBs CRT dithering
I just can't believe no one had a lot of issues with CRT except for the low 60 hertz refresh rate then LED monitors come out and so many people start to have problems. By so many I mean the small minority on this site and others🙂
CRT = True black, Perfect motion blur, Incredible spectrum, great viewing angles.

Maybe we will bridge the gap with viewing angles and speed and spectrum with the new LG Nano IPS 1 ms monitor. Or cross some peoples threshold to no pain.

I can tell you that the LG monitor I bought gives me no pain. I still use it all the time and it is the first true LED monitor that has given me no issues. CCFL has never worked for me. It's been months now even this past weekend on one day alone I gamed on it for well over 12 hours no issues. I use it everyday usually about an hour or 2 on work days but when I'm off I always use it. Even just thinking about some of the games I have played on it as they log the time I'm well over 120 hours of just game time on it no issues.

So we can rule out blue light with OLED.
We can rule out true blacks with OLED.
We can rule out PWM with most DC dimmed phones.
Motion blur is the hardest thing to deal with because OLED suffers the same sample and hold rules and regular LED.
I think the LG Nano IPS is the most different new tech that approaches OLED in terms of speed and color.
Next year we are supposed to get that Hisense TV that has two different LED layers that gives true black color and looks as good as OLED.

Who knows though as there are so many variables. Just some thoughts.

hpst

I know that's your theory but I am dubious. I never had issues with CRTs, CCFL LCDs, or early LED LCDs. I think it's going backwards to expect things like refresh rate are the cause when it was objectively worse in older tech. As usual you have found something comfortable...but have no real proof of why. We can never seem to reproduce or find proof of something. Just lucking into things.

jasonpicard

hpst Can you use old LED/CCFL now? with no issues? I have never been able to use it. CCFL for maybe a year but was starting to have problems with it then. So that is a major difference from me to you.

jasonpicard

hpst Even if we are talking about CFL lighting I remember talking to an electrician about it and he was saying how he had to keep changing the lighting every couple of years in all the different companies around here. He knew what the flicker blue light issue was because his grandma had it. I used to be fine with old CFL tubes till about 2003. Then some places started changing them and I started having minor problems then but nothing that would totally put me out but I knew something wasn't right. Our laws kept changing here so they had to keep changing the lighting every few years apparently for energy reasons and it kept getting slightly worse every time the fluorescent tubes would switch from T3/T5/T8.

hpst

jasonpicard Can you use old LED/CCFL now?

I can use an ancient Toshiba CCFL laptop with Linux (2006 model) and an iPad 2 (2012 model on iOS 9 and is LED IPS) with no pain. Also a 2014 Nokia Lumia Windows Phone (LED IPS) but haven't found anything new that is tolerable. I used 2009 and 2011 Macbook Pros (TN LED) for years but sold them prior to strain starting. Some various PC laptops with TN LED before this as well. I never had issues with older computers/CRT/LED lighting in a home (only have halogen now and not interested in testing LED in home). I've ruled out PWM, blue light, everything commonly suggested and tested. I have no idea.

noigmn

jasonpicard I have had trouble with lighting too. Some make me sick in any situation (certain ccfls or LEDs, faulty fluoros), but some lighting is only bad for screen and reading work or after exposure to a bad device, and some is fine.

It seems like there are neurological and visual changes after exposure to bad devices that make other devices less tolerable. For me it takes very little time to trigger them mildly and the more exposure, the worse the negative effects get.

Worth noting too, that at least in my case, the time periods seem far too short for it to just be eye strain. I could walk around cross eyed or with someone elses glasses for longer with less negative effects and recover from those effects far quicker.

jasonpicard

hpst Your list is so random. The only screens that have given me no strain is my OLED Yotaphone 2, OLED Samsung S2 and my new TN LG monitor. Nothing else has ever worked properly if we are talking about CCFL/LED for me since 2008. With minor issues creeping up even before then with my CCFL Dell laptop which was terrible. I was close with a couple monitors but they would get to me after awhile.

The way I see it I'm going to buy another monitor as soon as I can and a new DC dimmed OLED phone when I can. If they both work I pretty much know what my issues with screens are. If I wasn't doing a home renovation right now I already would have ordered the Nano IPS LG monitor.

tomek

Markus Markus with iPhone XS(you tried X but I think display is the same) I have direct strain when I use it without matte screen protector, but with it I'm using this whole day without strain. I'm so happy because I never thought I will use any iPhone since old 3g and 4.

Gurm

tomek I'm glad to hear this. You are confirming one theory we have had - which is that iPhones of a certain size can be rendered safe to use with a quality matte protector. Which one did you buy?

tomek

Gurm I have iPhone XS 64GB bought in November 2018 with 3mk matte screen protector(I'm from Poland so it's easer to get one then Skinomi). But when I've changed to new one due old was scratched I had to polish it a bit to looks as old one because I had a middle eye strain. Even now when I have this set and I change color temperature in Night Shift I'm getting strain. So for me it's mix of color and eye accommodation.

Gurm

Guys, my current plan is as follows:

Switch to AT&T. Temporarily, I will use my fiance's iPhone 7+ with a matte screen protector.
Order a OnePlus3, brand new, the USA GSM variant that works 100% on AT&T.
Set up Paranoid Android, and swap over my SIM card.

If this works out for me, I'll post positive results (as well as DETAILED instructions on flashing, I'm pretty good at Android stuff but every phone is different). Additionally, if this works out I'll be purchasing a SECOND OnePlus3 to keep in a drawer. I'm sure in 3 years it'll be outdated (it's already a 2016 phone!) as hell, but in the meantime I'll be less afraid of accidentally hurting it.

AGI

Gurm if this works out I'll be purchasing a SECOND OnePlus3 to keep in a drawer.

It is not an eyestrain issue, but I think it is worth sharing. The rear camera of my OnePlus 3 is defective. It is unable to autofocus. The image jumps, the camera module can be seen moving on the phone backside, emitting the sound of a metallic loose part. I checked online and there are numerous reports on this issue. It is not clear if it is purely hardware, because for the little I used the phone I noticed no noise under Oreo (but I had issues with keyboard and Googlemaps). Upgraded to Pie, all the apps work fine but the camera does not. Also, the only photo I took on Oreo looks horrible in terms of colors (there are reports on this as well). I read OnePlus acknowledged the problem, and change the rear camera module for free even out of warranty if the phone is in good conditions. So if you are based in the US, eventually it will be an easy fix. I am not wishing you the same bad luck I had, of course 😛

tomek I have iPhone XS 64GB

I played with it once more in a shop, and it looks fine. I am just too scared of making a move, given the cost!

Gurm

AGI thanks for the heads up. I had similar problems back in the HTC One m7 days, I went through a couple of them because the cameras went purple/washed.

I'm currently trying to decide between purchasing a OnePlus 3, or a OnePlus 3T. The chipsets are not the same - Snapdragon 820 vs 821 - but the GPU (Adreno 530) and screen module are identical. The 3T just has a bigger battery and a slightly faster CPU but otherwise they are identical. It ... should ... be safe to assume that these phones will have identical driver sets and perform much the same under Paranoid Android. Anyone have any thoughts on this? The Paranoid Android team considers them to be the same phone, and have a single distribution for them.

I also have had ok luck with the latest generation of iPhone. My cousin's XS seemed really nice but it's VERY VERY EXPENSIVE and not something I want to buy as an experiment... I haven't had a chance to see an XR yet.

AGI

Gurm The 3T just has a bigger battery and a slightly faster CPU but otherwise they are identical. It ... should ... be safe to assume that these phones will have identical driver sets and perform much the same under Paranoid Android.

Your reasoning makes much sense to me, but I am not the most knowledgable guy on the topic. If you get an eyestrain-free experience under PA on OnePlus 3 and you intend to buy a second unit, it may be worth to get a 3T. No eyestrain sufferer has yet compared 3 and 3T. If you find out that you can use the 3 but not the 3T, uh, then PA alone is not what makes the difference?

Gurm My cousin's XS seemed really nice

I would like to understand why this one does not hurt my eyes so badly...what is the difference?

Gurm

AGI I bow to your wisdom and will take your suggestion. I will order a OnePlus3 (it is around $190 USD brand new) and put PA on it. If this gives me a comfortable experience, I will then order a OnePlus3T (around $240 USD brand new) and do likewise. Then we will know. Either phone can be resold easily since I won't put any mileage on them. If they differ, I will sell the 3T and get a second 3 to keep as a spare. If not, I will use the 3T and keep the 3 as a spare.

As for the iPhone XS, I don't know. My only suspicion is maybe drivers? Apple is where I first saw this problem - they changed the way they were driving the screens of Macbooks in 2012 and that was it for me. It was a weird combination of software and hardware - I had the screen on a Macbook replaced with a theoretically identical screen and it hurt to look at.

In the case of the iPhone, we've seen many times that it varies from iOS update to iOS update. This forum is full of people who said "My iPhone 5 was fine under iOS 7 but broke with 7.1 and then was ok again with 8.0 and then..."

I really have no other ideas, since the XS is not especially high-res (it's 2436x1125, essentially just wide-format 1080p) but it IS using Apple's own iteration of OLED so maybe that's the ticket? I know people think they have problems with OLED devices, but I've long thought that OLED (like Plasma) was the future. And frankly I never had problems with early iterations of OLED screens. Samsung OLEDs always kind of tweaked me out but I assume that's the way Samsung was driving them from software/drivers/OS.

AGI

Has anyone tested Oukitel phones?
I ask because they mount LCD screens...

AGI

Gurm I will order a OnePlus3 (it is around $190 USD brand new)

What is your channel if you can disclose? I bought mine on eBay from a Chinese seller for USD 149 in "open box" conditions, but I have doubt on its history. I am now offered USD 50 discount if I keep it with the camera out of order.

Gurm In the case of the iPhone, we've seen many times that it varies from iOS update to iOS update.

That is the second reason why I have not bought the XS. Price apart, I am terrified by the idea of screwing it up with an update. On the other hand it makes little sense to spend so much money and not update.

Gurm

AGI no special channel, I just went on eBay and searched for new only. AT&T locked for around 180, unlocked for around 190. Multiple sellers.

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