Usable Smartphones?

Tobiyas

CorvusCorax I'm not really sure about that. Looking at their waveform graph, there is a sudden decrease in modulation. Additionally, at their measurement of 10 micro second result show there is inconsistent pulsing of modulation. That would mean at 100k pwm there is slight flickering. It could mean there might be other forms of temporal light modulation flickering involved.

Temporal light modulation includes PWM, strobe lighting (<3000 hz) and phantom array effect, btw.

Rui

Another phone sold, Xiaomi Poco X4 GT. Despite having an LCD and a 50k PWM according to notebook check, it gave me some discomfort. But still it was usable. First LCD that causes me some discomfort. I guess if it has PWM, no matter how high, it will affect my eyes/head.

Motorola is releasing some interesting phones, from what I've read here. A LCD with no PWN and a phone with 720 Hz? Never drops below this value? If so, it might be better that those phones with 1920 Hz/2160 Hz PWM dimming, that only keep these values on low light environments. The rest of the time they're not much better than any other amoled with low PWM (I owned 3 of those 1920 Hz/2160 Hz PWM phones…)

RulerofNothing

Notebookcheck review (german site) of the Galaxy A14 5G says no PWM detected on the LCD display:

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Samsung-Galaxy-A14-5G-Aufgepepptes-Einsteiger-Smartphone-fuer-kleines-Geld.708303.0.html

Only wait for a good offer to try it. Maybe i will also try the Poco F5.

Maxx

I have now tested for a few weeks first Honor Magic4 Pro and now Magic5 Pro. Both are better than normal PWM OLEDs. I can use without significant eye strain. This means that if I use for 2 days really heavily, then I will have red irritated eyes. But if I use it normally, a few hours throughout the day, meaning that I don't stare the screen like 5 hours, then it is tolerable. But I still use my Moto g100 as if I have some heavy use, I try to use the motorola instead.

Dok123

Hi, anyone tried Oppo Find X3 Neo?

According to notebookcheck:

"According to our measurements, the display flickers from a brightness value of below 24 percent in a frequency range between 122 and 362 Hz. Above 24 percent, we only detect the refresh rate of 90 Hz."

Thank you!

Edit: I would like to know also if that means that above 24% of brightness no pwm is used?

Vividblu99

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/GeHr_iLpvAU

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/mfnXGvEqRhI

Anyone care to share their thoughts on these videos?

https://www.hihonor.com/uk/phones/honor-magic5-pro/

(Watch the video on their TUV certified circadian friendly display)

Some of the finest marketing hyperbole that I've recently witnessed. All exposed in their own small print 😂🤣

Tobiyas

Vividblu99 Ah yes I did saw their presentation on the TUV certified circadian friendly display. It's quite convincing indeed😂. However to me, it doesn't seem to have any actual scentific evidence or research to back up their claim. It's more like some employee in lab coat throwing technical jargons words around. I'll give them an 'A' for creativity, nevertheless!

As for the "higher PWM dimming", sure it's better than the competitors oled panel but it's still cosmic far away from reaching the comfort of a PWM-free LCD. They have a constant 1920 Hz at brightness approx. between 15% to 23%, I'll give them that. But however, what about other brightness levels? Why should I restrict myself to only using this brightness level? Furthermore, 1920 hz is still too low to eliminate the side effects of PWM. Traditional LCD that use PWM, for instance, typically have 20k and above.

In all, I say the market dept did a great attempt at trying to win over former LCD users to OLED. 😝

Vividblu99

Vividblu99 https://m.youtube.com/shorts/GeHr_iLpvAU

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/mfnXGvEqRhI

Anyone care to share their thoughts on these videos?

@Dok123

Watch these video's to get an example & idea of the PWM on the Magic5 Lite 5G.

RulerofNothing

Yes i currently test the Poco F5 that also has a PWM frequency of up to 1920 Hz. It’s better than others but give me still some eye strain. It’s not easy. I have the display tested here with the Opple Light Master. PWM frequency of 1927 Hz until 55-60%. Above that it’s 120 Hz.

Tobiyas

RulerofNothing It's excellent that you have both the Poco F5 and the Opple Light Master.

Now that we know that the device has a constant 1927 hz until 55%, would you be fine to do further testing on Poco F5 device? If you could, please share the recorded data for the flicker index and modulation depth under the following brightness percentage.

Brightness at…

15%
flicker index:
modulation depth:

30%
flicker index:
modulation depth:

45%
flicker index:
modulation depth:

55%
flicker index:
modulation depth:

RulerofNothing

Tobiyas

15%:

flicker: 1920 Hz

Modulation: 99.50%

30%: 1920 Hz and 99.50%

45%: 1920 Hz and 99.50%

55%: 1920 Hz and 72.63%

60%: 120 Hz and 24.65%

Dok123

Hi, someone can help me understand this:

According to notebookcheck, for the smartphone Oppo find X3 neo:

"…the display flickers from a brightness value of below 24 percent in a frequency range between 122 and 362 Hz. Above 24 percent, we only detect the refresh rate of 90 Hz."

It means that when the pwm adapts to the refresh rate it's ok?

Thank you

Tobiyas

Dok123 No it is not ok for this device. If you look at their graph given for above 24 percent brightness, the waveform is not flat. Fluctuation is pretty bad as well.

A more tolerable flicker would be from Huawei Mate 50 pro

Dok123

Tobiyas

What do you think about this?

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Motorola-Edge-30-Neo-smartphone-review-Compact-beauty.664696.0.html

Thank you for your availability

Tobiyas

RulerofNothing Thanks for the above! Dear me, the figures doesn't look good at all!

At 60% brightness, with 120 Hz and 24.65%, I expect it to be Xiaomi's implementation of DC Dimming. Its low by 120hz but the PWM issue could be resolved by mantaining the 24.65% modulation at 1920 hz.

But no! Xiaomi decides to "solve" a problem by creating another problem. At 1920hz with a modulation 99.50%, it is practically unusable! The output brightness and the dimmest brightness value are at the extreme ends of the spectrum. (1s and 0s).

Anyone with PWM sensitivity problem, when exposed to such intense switching of "off and on" lights, will get a headache for sure.

Thanks. From the above, we now know the 1920 hz by xiaomi is simply a placebo effect. Unless they do 1920 hz at 24% modulation, nothing is resolved.

It appears that only 55% is "manageable" out of this entire mess.

RulerofNothing

Tobiyas Yes i will send it back because i get more and more eye strain when i use it. This is not a solution for me. Next will be the Galaxy A14 5G.

Tobiyas

Cool! Galaxy A14 5G appears to be good and comfortable phone to use.

Just something minor I noticed, but the A14 5G seem to be using this light color(9344k) as a substitute to display "pure white".

You might want to correct this in the advanced display option settings by turning down the blue and green hue to get a pure white screen instead.

https://www.samsung.com/sg/support/mobile-devices/how-to-adjust-full-screen-color-balance-of-display-in-samsung-mobile-device/

This will reduce your eyestrain from it

Tobiyas

Dok123 Looks really fine for an oled imo.

Vip

Dok123 I just bought an Edge 30 Neo, based on the high PWM frequency and reports of no temporal dithering. It gave me eye strain and headaches, like pretty much every other phone since the iPhone 6S I’m still carrying around. I had to return it.

I haven’t isolated the cause of my headaches though, so you may fare better than me. My current theory is that it’s the temporal dithering that affects me as I have had a number of IPS and LCD phones that have triggered me and these should have no PWM at all. The search goes on…

Aquila

Vip Try a Huwei Mate 20 (not pro). Lcd IPS.

My main phone since 2019.

Amazing for eyes.

Yes, It's old, but it's a Monster.

K-Moss

Vip "My current theory is that it’s the temporal dithering that affects me as I have had a number of IPS and LCD phones that have triggered me and these should have no PWM at all. The search goes on…"

Then try the Moto G 2025. It is IPS LCD with verified no dithering. See if it works. If it doesn't, it's not dithering that is bugging you.

RulerofNothing

I now have the Galaxy A14 5G her. I tested it with the Opple Light Master and oddly it detected PWM. Here the results:

5% brightness: PWM frequency 9846 Modulation 44.05%

10%: 9846 and 12.59%

25%: 9846 and 10.70%

50% 9846 and 5.59%

100% 9846 and 2.67%

Notebookcheck has not detected PWM. Maybe different screen supplier? I will now put a matte screen protector on it and use a dim app to have the brightness always over 10% for lower modulation. On 5% brightness it is already quite bright here in the room. I will see how it effects my eyes.

Tobiyas

RulerofNothing Thank for providing the above data! I was thinking of buying the Galaxy A14 5g if pwm was as what nbcheck mentioned.

It be a problem for me as well since I can only use my smartphone between 12nits to 35nits. For any brightness above 35nits it will trigger headache for me. 10% brightness for A14 5g would be around 58 nits. Thus I can't use it even at 10%. From your data, and from what this redditor (in pwm_sensitive)proposed to calculate acceptable modulate percentage for people with light sensitivity:

0.0031 * 9846 hz = 40% allowed modulation

https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/13jpd86/proposed_formula_for_individuals_with_flickering/

At 5% brightness, the modulation 44% has exceeded the allowed modulation percentage of 40%, according to the redditor's proposed formula.

btw, it looks like samsung galaxy has their own "OLED Saver" and I'm not sure if it works like a monitor I have. I decreased the R,G,B colors to 50% each respectively and brightness went down from 75nits to 35nits(confirmed using Opple Light Master). It was the link I posted to you in my previous post.

You might try to see if works and do let me know the outcome if it did.

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