Usable Smartphones?

RulerofNothing

Maybe this could be a reason because i have such problems with recent smartphone with LCD display. Don‘t know if the new Moto G14 with his 60 Hz LCD display also has such a panel.

Tobiyas

RulerofNothing

RulerofNothing Indeed. I can confirm that my Vivo phone (from late 2022) above with IPS LCD has PWM of 9840 hz. It seems to share the same PWM hertz as Honor 90 lite (LTPS). But Honor 90 Lite felt even worse for me. I think they added another layer of high speed flickering like what Apple did with their Macbook pro mini-led. (with their PWM between 4khz to 7khz, and then another layer of 14-15khz constant flickering across all brightness. Probably for the constantly flickering in Honor, they are using flickering hertz higher than 40 khz which Opple can't detect and will ignore)

The much older Vivo Y16 with a notch and phat bezels do not have any eyestrain at all. Same as Honor X7a. No eyestrain or headache for me.

Basically, if you see that a new LCD screen is announced with a hole punch and slim bezels, it is part of the newer generation of LCD designed to give us a greater "viewing" experience. It seems to be happening with IPS LCD now. Most of them are using PWM to create this perception.

Oh and additionally, if you are struggling with PWM above 6000hertz, chances are you are not only PWM sensitive but also light sensitive. for those with light sensitivity, PWM has to be around 18000 hertz and higher.

I want to point out that the 1/12000 shutter speed was not able to capture the 9840 hertz in my vivo phone. (PWM hertz confirmed with Opple). Like why of course since I need 1/20 000 shutter speed to detect it (as 2.07 * PWM hertz)

1/12000 shutter speed works as a fantastic benchmark for those with only PWM sensitivity since 6000 hertz is the threshold for the average people to not detect flickering. We are certain to detect flickering below 5800 hertz from a 1/12000 camera.

Now I need to find a camera with higher than 1/20 000 shutter speed to help ourselves that struggle with light sensitivity. The RX100 which I have been using at 1/32000 shutter (able to detect up to a crazy 15 000 hertz!) used to work but Sony pushed down a firmware update that effortlessly disable "flickering in screen and recording" for me. Bravo Sony. Bravo. That really helped in my testing.

More work really.

In Japanese, we call it "余計なこと" [yokeina koto]. That is~ doing something that was completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

ban

It's kind of sad to see that there are no good devices to use these days for those sensitive to whatever new devices have. Getting an entry phone results in crappy camera, huge size, sluggish. The most annoying thing is being hard to focus when looking at the screen which results in dry eye/red eye/pain. However let's look at the bright side, much less time spent on phones 🙂

nikomanuel96

ban what android devices you tried aside the nokia g60? sorry bad english.

Now manufactures are launching less and less lcd phones and the few ones have ltps displays or are budget low end devices.

ban

I've recently tried Huawei p20 and even after like a week I still have dry eyes. (most proeminent symptom was hard to focus screen). Previously I've been using for a lot of time the Huawei Nova 5T which was actually ok for me but it's stuck on android 10 and now has it's screen cracked. Now I am using iphone 7 which seems to be ok for the eyes except it has poor battery/performance/size. I've been tempted to buy an used iphone 11 but saw reports of eye strain for it so I'm not risking it. Another possible option would be fairphone 4 but that seems to have poor camera/performance and also big size. I don't really like MIUI so not tempted to go on xiaomi route. The phone that affected me the most was Pixel 4 (or at least my eye symptoms appeared when I used that device) and I would have really like a device like pixel 6a or 7a but ther PWM is all over the place. I don't intend to "hurt myself" by forcing to use all this poor technology.

I wonder if the fairphone 4 is worth it, I can find it at a good price.

dolphinmax

Tobiyas hello.

sorry for my english.

to measure PWM up to 20000, you can

use a speaker with an aux

input or a smartphone with an analyzer

and as a sensor a solar panel from something

connected through a capacitor.

from last phones i try realme c55 this phone not bad ips whthout any pwm ,i testing now BUT in c55 old type memory emms 5.1 but fastest RAM .

Mahdi

SebbesApa

Please provide us with an update. Were the migraines caused by the update, or were they unrelated to the phone?

dolphinmax

Mahdi
I sold x4 gt, also experienced discomfort from the screen.

Mahdi

dolphinmax

I see, that's quite unfortunate.

ryans

Checkout this new article on Android Central: https://www.androidcentral.com/phones/best-phones-for-pwm-flicker-sensitive

It is great to see this discussed (again) in a "mainstream" website. Some of those phones might be worth trying with a good return policy.

The PWM graphs appear to come from an OPPLE light master.

JRUK

ryans

I logged in today to also post the thread from Android Central. Having read the positive notes about the Moto phones I'm really interested in trying the Moto Edge 40 Pro (European name for the Edge Plus 2023) ahead of the iPhone 15 release as I suspect, like every year since the launch of the OLED iPhones, I still won't be able to use them and will continue to be stuck on my iPhone 11.

"Motorola debuted a relatively new flicker-reduction option with the Edge Plus (2023) that ensures the phone's display is on 99.51% of the time during the duty cycle. In practice, this is identical to DC dimming, which means the phone is actually reducing the voltage to the OLED diodes instead of using PWM flickering to fake a dimmer display."

If I could use the Moto Edge 40 Pro then I will be free of Apple and their dithering + PWM devices but sadly in the UK, the Motorola site is run by Digital River who state you have to arrange your own returns - not something I want to risk on a £800+ device should it not work for me. Amazon EU does have it for sale but any returns would have to go back to Europe which is also risky.

Is anyone giving the Moto Edge 40 Pro/Edge Plus 2023 a chance?

AGI

JRUK Are 40 Edge and 40 Edge Pro two different models? Could you please post a link to the right phone? Cheers.

ogologo

JRUK

Im PWM sensitive. Using Moto 30 Edge Fusion with anti flickering mode enabled without any problems. I think Moto edge 40 Pro will be great for you.

Leachim38

Hi Jruk,

I ordered the phone just now, will keep you updated. I am sensitive to eye strain (devices till 2020) and migraines (devices after 2020).

So I think I am a good tester.

Michael

ban

Interesting to see TCL NXTPaper displays on their new phones. Anyone thoughts on this? Seems to be IPS without backlight from what I've read, with low glare and blue light.

OtherJonny

ban that is a misconception. Only one tablet they sell from the NXTPaper series has no backlight. Most of their NXTPaper line uses a matte screen for a “paper-like” feel/look.

Found this in an article about the phone.

The version included in these 40-series phones does use a backlight like a traditional phone screen, though you can switch between color and monochrome display modes if you want to use it as an e-reader.

pavelbures

Problem with TCL phones is that they kill background processes, so you do not get notifications of some apps even if you disable all batery saving features. But some TCL phone have good screen without PWM and TD - I have TCL 10 5G and it is OK.

degenerated_technology

No, don't use any phone for a long time.

Daniel4

I used the S9+ without problems until I decided to change the battery, which was a big mistake because after that I got serious headaches and dizziness. I kept trying different phones s21 ultra the worst, samsung a52s, a54, moto g73, vivo y35, honor 90 lite, older huawei p30 pro, until I lost hope that I will find something usable. But I discovered Oppo a78, brilliant, I use it without any problem. The secret is that it has an older display, it is not amoled but not IPS, plus it also has a certificate for low blue light. The phone is very robust, it has a great battery, it lasted me 3 days once. I have the model with 8 GB Ram and it is fluid in use. The only minus would be the camera, but it is usable. So for those looking for something useful, I recommend it.

rorro98678

Daniel4 is it 5g?

DAVEGEO

Had loads of phones and a few that have been great. I'm currently using what I believe to be the best phone for sensitive users which is the Honor 20. It has low contrast around 800:1 and doest use PWM. The cameras are great and with the Kirin 980 it's very snappy. Battery is great too. My only concern is it's stuck on android 10 and the phone is from 2019. To my horror I have had a "reduced battery capacity" alert and fear this phone is coming to the end of its lifespan. I have tried the nothing phone 2 because of the DC dimming but it wasn't great and the camera was terrible in low light. Has anyone tried the Honor 90 lite? Thinking about getting an honor magic 4 lite or maybe an oppo a94 5g but it has amoled screen. Fair phone 4 looks ok too. Anyone had any luck with any of these phones? Notebookcheck website is a great source of finding out contrast levels and has saved me lots of wasted money. I also have a Samsung s8 tablet that has low contrast and no Pwm and it's great.

Daniel4

DAVEGEO Yes, I tried the honor 90 lite and it seemed terrible to use, mainly headaches and fatigue. But every person is different. Oppo A78 worked for me. Success

nikomanuel96

DAVEGEO Honor magic 4 lite (the 5g and even the x9 4g version) and realme 9 pro are the phones with the most positive feedback i ve seen recently, off course they can still dont work for you...you have to try it first, but i think they are the most safest option to start with as 2023 hasnt been an good year for pwm free screens.

sorry bad english

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