Usable Smartphones?

qb74

karut
I don't see how "the most eye friendly OLED" is something praiseworthy.
You're comparing flickery garbage to even bigger flickery garbage.
Until it can compete with LCD's, which fixed backlight issues since 2012 (completely DC dimmed, no flicker of any kind), which even the old Galaxy S II or Lumia 650 did (unconfirmed but apparently they both lacked any brightness fluctuation), it's dead on arrival to most people who are sensitive (every human is to some extent, whether they wanna admit it or not) to flicker / brightness fluctuations.

All OLED issues can be solved at this moment right now by manifacturers, but there's no incentive for them to do so.

karut

qb74 I dont like your hostile, bitter tone. You are just complaining here, not contributing meaningful content with your post. The settings guide is useful. And what Xiaomi did is a step in the right detection (what other manufacturer does this?), with what seems to be particular focus on eye friendliness (them cooperating with an university) and a lower recovery time with new unique technology (PAM). At least I havent heard of that being implemented in other phones. I might be wrong. All that seems noteworthy to me.

By most eyefriendly OLED I meant thats its possibly the most comfortable phone with OLED currently. Of course there is further progress necessary. Progress always happens incrementally and this the right direction.

JTL

qb74 which even the old Galaxy S II or Lumia 650 did (unconfirmed but apparently they both lacked any brightness fluctiation)

I've been really tempted to borrow one of those devices and observe it under the oscilloscope.

qb74

karut
Why do you treat brands as a human entity with emotions?
They're there to milk you, not to pamper you.
They could fix the issue all OLED phone panels have this second right now, as seen by desktop monitors and TV displays, but they simply don't want to.
Why would they fix something that 1% of their customer user base is impacted by (no PWM flicker sub 100% brightness) and ruin overall min & max brightness for 99% of their other customers?
No, Xiaomi isn't doing anything worthwhile.
This quote exactly describes what they're doing:

"If you stick a knife in my back 9 inches and pull it out 6 inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out, that's not progress. The progress is healing the wound that the blow made.. And they won't even admit the knife is there." Malcolm X

They're just moving the knife by a few inches.

Only usable phones are most LCD phones, end of story.
This is without going into aspects such as operating system, overall build quality, repairability etc.
Wish they'd stop treating LCD phones as low-end devices.

moonpie
What's your source on this? If it's Notebookcheck, they aren't reliable.
Not sure what "fixed 60hz refresh which is divisible by the PWM" is supposed to represent visually on a oscilloscope.
My theory is that it still has the display scanout brightness dip but I'd like to see it myself.

moonpie

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DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

qb74 Only usable phones are most LCD phones, end of story.

Unfortunately I still can't find a usable LCD phone lol, I tried:

Oppo A98 (2023, Android 13, 120hz VRR LCD, I attempted a 120hz FPS-locking workaround as well)
OnePlus Nord N30 (2023, Android 13, 120hz VRR LCD)
Xiaomi Mi Mix 2s (2018, Android 10/9/8 tried downgrading to all 3 versions, 60hz LCD)
iPhone SE (2020, iOS 17.2.1, 60hz LCD)

They all gave me terrible eyestrain, SE was the absolute worst but the Androids were not usable for me either.

jordan

karut 14T dithers sadly

moonpie

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qb74

moonpie

You will see a slight dip/wiggle for the refresh rate at the sine wave peak. Your eyes don't care about that. Square and sawtooth, they will.

nice, so you dodge my question where I ask you of concrete proof for your previous claims and try to diagnose my eyestrain concerns instead, good job.
no, what you're saying is complete non-sense and doesn't apply to everyone.
send a screenshot of a oscilloscope wave instead of talking shapes 🙂
i can pull out studies which have shown the ability the human nervous system has in detecting flicker and rf emission.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs
Have you tried a older smartphone such as the A23 5G, Nokia 8, Xiaomi MI 10T Pro? Have you played around with color temperature and setting a fixed refresh rate?

karut

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

I am pretty sensitive to PWM and dithering. I can use the Fairphone 4 pretty comfortably. Perhaps you could try it.

ps: I also finally found a MacBook (the MacBook Pro with TB you recommended) that works for me. Thank you very much for the suggestion!

moonpie

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SebbesApa

qb74

Xiaomi MI 10T Pro gave me really bad migraines. With the Poco X4 GT i only get slight eyestrain but at least no migraines.

moonpie

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JOSEUISLEY

SebbesApa It's a shame that this device isn't available in Brazil the Poco X4 GT, it's too expensive to import. I wanna try this one

qb74

SebbesApa
I'm afraid that this is just the result of incomplete (or improper) testing from most phone reviewers.

There can be multple causes which can contribute to eyestrain, from the hardware stack to the software stack.
The MI 10T Pro uses PWM to control it's brightness below 60% with a frequency of 2358 Hz, which is easily noticable by the human eye.
The maximum brightness level of the device is measured at 600cd/m2, which is quite bright in-doors, contributing to the effect of eyestrain even further
You could've been using the display with PWM on by mistake.
It's also not very good to have VRR (variable refresh rate) turned on, as that can have negative consequences on panel performance (even desktop monitors can flicker, let alone phones which aren't verified enough + have power
& battery life constraints to consider)

All of this could've led to your findings with this device.

SebbesApa

qb74

This is with max brightness and regardless of screen refresh rate. I'm not the only one as i've read that more people can't use this device without having eyestrain/migranes. It's the same story with my 6 years older brother.

Leachim38

For who is interested: I tested 20+ phones, and the Oneplus9 had the least complaints. Since 3/4 year all complaints vanished, just like that. I think because of a software update…

ensete

I got a TCL A20S, with Nova Launcher, and Disabling HW Overlays, is useable pain free

pavelbures

TCL A20S? I am not sure this phone exists. There is Samsung Galaxy A20s

ensete

pavelbures Sorry it's the 20s, not A20s

https://www.amazon.com/TCL-20S-Unlocked-Smartphone-Charging/dp/B09H5KM217

Still my daily driver, with HW Overlays disabled it very tolerable.

I am still waiting for an academic proof/relation between temp. dithering and eye discomfort/nausea/headaches.

There isn't one. Everyone jumps on the "dithering/flickering" explanation cause it sounds like it makes sense. IMHO it has pretty much zero to do with our condition

snksmxnzkz

why doesn't anyone check for flicker through a microscope? then we could be more objective for the majority about screen safety.

my friend from another forum tested several android phones, iPhone 11 and incell screens for iPhone 12 Pro Max and iPhone 14 Plus

the safest screen among android turned out to be Huawei Mate 20 and I confirm this, in five years of use I have never once encountered problems with this phone.

On iPhone 11 he noticed strong Temporal Dithering, which can cause symptoms. the incell screens for iPhone are more complicated. the most flicker-free screen was the screen from RJ factory for iPhone 12 Pro Max, flicker was either not detected at all, or was very slight and only on certain settings. but after iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 RJ factory changed the technology of display production, the pixel structure changed and the screen began to flicker more. Of all the screens tested for the iPhone 14 Plus, the most flicker-free was the screen from HL factory, but it is of low quality with poor colors and still flickers more than RJ for the iPhone 12 Pro Max. He also tested screens from JK, EK Pro, TC and a few more completely unknown and they all flicker noticeably.

I'm also attaching a video comparing incell screens and iPhone 11 where you can see the flickering.

Video

jordan

snksmxnzkz mate 20 doesn't use temporal dithering ?

Cons

snksmxnzkz Ah. Was hoping to buy iphone 15 pro and RJ screen for it.

As i have RJ for regular 12. Its not usable for me for something like maps navigation, reading or youtube playing but after installed RJ i can use it for camera, sound recording and voice pitch monitoring (which requires me to stare at the screen a lot), but for some reasons staring at the app called Singscope doesnt hurt my eyes opposite to google maps in night mode (immediate pain)

My main phone is iphone 11 which doesnt hurt at all. But cant find another 11 which will be the same pain free for my eyes. Thats why trying to prepare myself to the moment 11 screen will die.

Leachim38

snksmxnzkz …because all theories don't match reality/pain issues.

I am still waiting for an academic proof/relation between temp. dithering and eye discomfort/nausea/headaches.

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