Usable Smartphones?

KM

You all are still searching so much, but I think some more of you should try to get a reasonably priced OnePlus 3 with Android 7.0 stock. I'm having most of our problems: PWM, graphics drivers, graphics cards, different video modes, changes in gamma, even monitor's light intensity can hurt my eyes. The only thing I'm not sure about is temporal dithering. But this device and setup works for me for over a year now, 6-8 hours of usage a day, and I refuse to believe it won't help anybody else here. I'm gonna update my first post soon where I'll elaborate so it won't be overlooked in this very long thread.

Kray

Oneplus 3 has PWM:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/OnePlus-3-Smartphone-Review.169223.0.html

I definitely get eye strain from PWM. Not sure if I want to try this.

But you can use this phone for long periods of time (e.g. half hour or 1 hour straight) without eye strain?

KM

Kray At brightness 68/255 and above there's no PWM anymore (a little different from notebookcheck's review).
And yes, I can look at it for hours. Usually I have a lot of trouble with brightnesses greater than 0 on any LED device, but not in this case.

If you set up the device in a bright environment you may not have to look at PWM during the setup process.

degen

Given that iPhones change every generation and iOS release in their acceptability to our eyes (panel, graphics driver, effects introduced through iOS, GPU, etc. etc.) I recommend specifically trying the iPhone 7 Plus on iOS 10, then add in Night Shift to always on, reduce white point to 50%, put the brightness to around 30%. This is the first smarphone since Galaxy S2 that I can use comfortably. Obviously my experience might =/ yours so make sure you can return it easily given the obscene pricing. Still not as good as the M7 that I traded in for no good reason other than I wanted a faster phone (but ended not being able to use it at all. I could only use the 6s for literally seconds in the end).

Plsnostrain

Weird.. I suffer from eyestrain , but one phone I could use with no strain is samsung s6. And iphone 4s is fine also. I remember when iphone 5 came out, I got heavy strain. I guess we suffer from different kind of factors.

degen

Plsnostrain I meant the iPhone.

Gurm

Plsnostrain what OS were you running on the S6? Are you still using it? Was it the edge or the standard version?

I ask because I'd love to give it a spin - I can get one very cheaply. But I have had to keep my HTC m8 locked to Lollipop (Android 5.0.1) since moving to Marshmallow (6.x) or Nougat (7.x) makes it hurt to look at very much. Like you, the iPhone 4s was my favorite phone ever, and the 5 gave me strain. Not heavy, but definite.

Plsnostrain

degen
Yes. Sorry. wasnt replying to you.

Gurm

Right now, if this battery transplant for my HTC m8 doesn't go well, the plan is to try something else... at present, that "something else" will likely be the iPhone 7+ running iOS 10 (if I can get one) and similar settings to degen. With a matte skinomi protector. I'd prefer not to abandon the Android ecosystem, but since new devices aren't shipping with (nor do they support) Lollipop, and the newer Android OS'es are problematic...

Sunspark

Nokia 6 is a 720p PWM-free IPS display on Nougat. Don't know anyone with one, but worth considering.

Exandas

Sunspark

Nokia 6 gave me eye strain after 30 mins of use. I found Nokia 5 much more pleasing to my eyes, but i had not been able to use it more than 15 mins.

Also for the forum, i tested Sony Xperia X for a couple of days. The eye strain and headache was so intense that i could not sleep well at night. The screen seemed to me very harsh at any brightness grade, although no PWM is detected according to https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-Xperia-X-Smartphone-Review.170397.0.html

I am also in search for a new smartphone. My 3 year Vodafone device which is very easy on my eyes (TLC was the manufacturer) has become very very slow even though i have uninstalled half of the apps.

ryans

Exandas Any luck finding a new phone?

ensete

Can confirm the Moto G 4 and Moto G 4 plus are better, but still ultimately product eye strain after extended use.

Link

Guys what do you think it is about Android software that can cause eyestrain? Never considered OS on phone could be a reason for eyestrain.

Link

Is nougat 7.1 safe?

Kray

Link

I've seen people report that Nougat 7.1 gives them severe eye strain. I have an HTC U Ultra that comes with Nougat 7.0, and it is the absolute worse eye strain I have ever got. But I do not know for sure if that is caused (or solely caused) by Nougat 7.0. The only way to know for sure if you have a phone that you can use absolutely without eye strain, then you upgrade the OS to Nougat and suddenly you get eye strain. And if you downgrade the OS back, your eye strain disappear. That is the only way to know for sure if Nougat (or anything) is the cause of your eye strain.

LG G6 has PWM in the range of 2,400Hz, which is not detectable if you use smartphone camera (which can only detect around 240Hz PWM). A PWM of 2,400Hz can be detected using oscilloscope. Just google LG G6 PWM and you can see the result.

Link

Does anyone know if the LG G6 uses temporal dithering on Android 7.0 or higher? From what I know its pwm free.

Gurm

Well I don't know how, at the size it is, you'd be able to tell without a REALLY good camera, but my son's G6 is... better than most but still unpleasant for me to look at.

Link

Gurm Hey Gurm, I know you are comfortable with the HTC one x... Do you know if that's Pwm free? Notebookcheck confirmed the LG G6 being free of Pwm.
Also the HTC one x I hear since it is a superlcd2 is a TN panel with 6-bit plus frc.

Kray

Maybe we should ask the question the other way round, is there anyone here who can use ANY smartphones with Android Nougat at all, either 7.0 or 7.1, without any eye strain?

If yes, please share what phone make and model it is.

KM

Kray
- OnePlus 3 on Android 7.0 (OxygenOS): no eye strain
- same OnePlus 3 on Android 7.1 (OxygenOS): strong eye strain within minutes (red, burning eyes)
- same OnePlus 3 on LineageOS (Android 7.1x): same eye strain
- same OnePlus 3 on both older OxygenOS versions (Android 6) and CyanogenMod (Android 6): no eye strain, UNLESS the color profile is set to anything other than the default setting, or apps are used that change colors by using the "draw over other apps" permission (even when I set such apps' color slider to default, zero); same for Android 7.0

I think LineAgeOS uses sources from the manufacturer's OxygenOS. Whatever eyestrain-causing is happening there since Android 7.1, LineageOS seems to have copied it.

Or it's really the core Android 7.1 itself, but for this device it's not Android 7.0.

Gurm

KM Or we're looking at a compositing issue. This is what is wrong with Windows 10 in later versions, IMHO. They allow apps to composite on top of other apps, which puts an extra step in the display rendering chain... which does "something", which causes eye strain.

Kray

Interesting. I assume you do not get eye strain on display with PWM? Because I read the review of OnePlus 3, and it has PWM at 240Hz range. If you can use this phone with Android 7.0 must mean you dont get eye strain from PWM. Unfortunately, I do.

Anyway, the new Huawei Mate 10 is out already. It has a different chipset (Kirin processor, instead of Snapdragon), different GPU (Mali, instead of Adreno) and different OS (using the new Adroid Oreo 8.0). Mate 10 is using IPS LCD, their past models does not have PWM. This might be an interesting model to try.

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