Hi mates. I've been using a Dell P2317H 23" with a LG IPS panel 1080p 60hz 250cd/m² for 6 years with 60% brighness without any issue in my office PC with Win11 21H2. The same way I've been using my Samsung 49KS7000 TV with VA panel, the old Samsung LCD monitor in other PC, smartphones with LCD and OLED, tablet, etc. All devices that with screens that I had during my hole life never gave me strain, fatigue, headache and any other issue. I go to the ophthalmologist between 6 to 12 months and my prescription to myopia and astigmatism is the same since 2013. I can read anything well with glass and without them at close distance. So, I bought the famous Dell S2721DGF 27" IPS QHD 165Hz 400cd/m² G-Sync/Freesync Premium Pro to make that great upgrade in everything possible but as soon I turn it on it makes my eyes burn. Like many of people here I had strain, fatigue, headache, difficult to focus. I felt very strange because it never happed with any screens in my life and I calibrated in different ways, started reducing the brightness until I get only 15%. I used it with 165, 120, 60Hz, with and without Freesync. Tried everthing I could. I read a lot trying to understand what was happening and discovered that it uses a NanoIPS LG panel that uses red phosphorus to amplify the color gamut and the saturation goes crazy. Many people don't feel anything but some are very sensitive. This particular monitor cannot emulate sRGB because of Freesync specification nad I did it partially with AMD Adrenalin that softens it but it was still unusable. The different resolution, the wild brightness, the possible flickering (it's flicker free but Rtings discovered that it fickers with 20000Hz frequency) and other stuffs can be the reason. It's complicated and it was sad but I returned it. So, I decided to buy a Dell S2421HN because I thought that could be somenthing like my P2317H. It is IPS, same 1080p resolution, only 0.8" wider, 250cd/m², but it has 75Hz with Freesync. It was cheap and gave it a try but I had problems too. I put it side by side with P2317H and calibrated to be similar, adjusted the brightness to be the same and it bothered me. With my old one I could read, scroll and read and I feel nothing. With the new one I could read but I feel my eyes lost like with them trying to focus on something. When I scrolled and tried to read something my eyes can't focus immediately and I had to wait something about 1 second to refocus and read. Very weird and with my one one is instantaneous. I was very disappointed and returned it. Last try. I bought a P2423D the is a QHD 24" 300cd/m² with 60Hz, no Freesync or any other stuff. I thought, the other two was S series and 21 models, let's try a P series that I already use and model 2023. Maybe the very high ppi would be nice. Well, it was less problematic that the other two but still it's very different when compared to the old one about focus and even sharpness. Using it was not so terrible like the other two, but the rest of day the eyes hurt. Of course, tried different calibrations, put them side by side, matched the brighness even reducing more to see what I feel. I tried to do something more and plugged the monitor in my Lenovo Ryzen 5500U with Vega graphics with Win11 21H2 laptop but it didn't change much thing. Before I really consider return it I will plug it in my old core i5 computer with Win10 and Intel graphics and my other computer that uses a NVidia card and Win11 21H2 to see if I feel something different but I really don't have faith that will make any difference. All this new monitors says that are flicker free, low blue light emission, TUV certification, strain reduction and all this stuffs, but what I can say it that crap LCD from the past never caused this king of stuff without any kind of certification. There are a lot of them aroud us. I researched a lot to find anything and found more things about S2721DGF because it's very popular and has and agressive color gamut that really bothers some people. The other two don't have strain complains and I couldn't find who manufactures the displays. I found more general complains about what can cause strain and I ended up here. I saw a interesting post about polarization and tested it. My P2317H blocks horizontal light and the P2423D vertical but old Samsung monitor blocks diagonal, my two Samsung TV vertical, my S20FE with OLED diagonal, my other LCD phone vertical. So, it doesn't seem that polarization plays a role in this problem. Guys, I'm really lost. Now I have this monitor working, and I can buy a new one and return it and continue to use it. But as soon as it doesn't work anymore I will be screwed because I don't have a minimum idea about what I can use and I will won't be able to return as I can do now. One option would be go to stores and phisically see every monitor but here in Brazil is difficult. I went to shopping mall, different stores and they don't have this kind of stuff. Specialized computer stores operates online. Sorry to build a wall of text and maybe repeat a lot of thing that people already said. I have until next friday to return it to Dell and I have to thing about it and also try to figure out what I can do. Thank you fo this great forum.

I feel your pain, I had the same when I switched from my old monitor to the new Dell Alienware AW2521HF. I had such symptoms that I thought I was dying, really. After many days of trying, I finally managed to set it up so that it is more or less OK, but I still feel uncomfortable with some games. I think the new display technology will be a dead end for many. All that remains is to adopt or abandon the new technology. There is also hope that someone will eventually figure out what the problem is, but I would rather not count on it. And some practical advice from me: 1. Change monitor manufacturer, DELL unfortunately often causes problems. 2. Try different settings with your monitor. What worked for me was setting the contrast/brightness to 38%, setting the white balance to warm and setting the refresh rate of the monitor to static 240Hz (I turned off G-Sync). Interestingly, when I change the brightness to, for example, 40%, after a few seconds I want to vomit. 3. Eye training. It may sound strange, but regular eye exercises can help (circular movements of the eyeballs, eye accommodation exercises, etc.). Good luck and don't give up.

CorvusCorax Your model is 2021. What I've saw is that this hell started around 2018. Gaming for some time can bother, but with dark scences and color changes I think that it's easier than navigate on web or use a spreadsheet for exemple. This forum is and example. It's white and the characters black, so it's really difficult to look at, scroll and read, more than playing a game. What make us sad is that we could navigate here with old monitors without any problem but now it's hell. Here in Brazil monitors are difficult. Many models doesn't arrive or we have to wait a long time and Dell has a superior quality and 3 warranty years. I think only Asus gives us 3 years too, but they have only a few shit models (unless very very expensive ones). Today I put the P2423D on my wife's old system with Win10 and Intel graphics and after in my game PC with Win10 and RTX 3080 trying to play with settings. On my office the AMD Adrenalin with RX 6600 is not so good and even had gamma to change, but Intel and NVidia has. I've managed to change some stuffs and it's hard to tell if it changed something in terms of comfort. I like white as close as 6500 K. I really hate warm. Is there for Windows some robust program to play with settings like gamma? I truly would like to understand what is happening. When we compare the specs of my old monitor with the last one that I returned, they are so similar that it's very weird that one is normal but the other one is so difficult to stare. People think we are crazy man.

I noticed something based on someone here out there about antiglare coating. On my P2317H and old Samsung monitor turned off with a window, a room lamp or even a flashlight from phone the light scatters well and don't bother. When I turn on the monitors and try to read a text with a flashlight from phone pointed it doesn't bother too. I was used to use my monitor with big window on this side without any problems for years. With P2423D turned off I noticed that it reflects the light from window different from P2317H. It's something more like a midterm between matte and glossy. Pointing the flashlight from the phone the light scatters but is more bright and in the center I can see the LED from the phone very bright. So, I tried to read a text with the flashlight pointed to the screen and it bothers like hell. The eyes feels discomfortable and they seems to be distracted with this glare and need to be refocusing on the text. Something like that. I would like to had the opportunity to test that on previous monitores that I returned. It seems that it can be one of the reasons of diconfort and maybe the main one.

Patoli Yeah, the coating can definetely be a problem. I own Benq PD2700u (still did not sell it, hopefully soon) and it is generally an ok monitor if not for the terrible, worst I've seen antiglare film, which is very very grainy and this graininess makes the white light shimmering and blinding even at low brightness. I have some other LG 4k, which has a different problem, but the coating is better (still grainy, but not as much) and it does not blind me. OTOH, you can try a standard advice: try a VA monitor. Some people report that VA is nicer on eyes, and I confirm it too (but effect is weak). VA are kinda terrible in many ways and nice in some other ways (especially for watching movies).

EyeDiscomfortCertificate Yes, man. It's grainy, this is the word. It's weird and the very bright led reflection in the center is terrible. I also asked to my fried to check and the said that his Dell notebook is like that, but his LG ultrawide IPS doesn't have like all old ones. I asked him to take to my home his ultrawide for me to see with my eyes. I like VA, but it depends on panel. My Samsung TV is excellent without black smearing, but most of monitors are awful. Dark images are bad and black smearing is hell. And also, if the antiglare coating is one big reason for the problem even the VA monitor will have this problem.

Patoli No, for some reason VAs have often better coating and also due to higher contrast the coating deficiencies are not as obvious. But anyways, if VAs do not fit your requiremnts, yes you should avoid it. BTW Dell 24 QHD is a more premium professional product, no wonder it has better picture quality. Generally higher end Dells have the best coating in terms of grain. But cheap 24 FHD Dells - who knows what they put there?

EyeDiscomfortCertificate I can't understand that. S2721DGF, S2421HN and P2423D all different models with different prices and crap coating. I believe that this new type of coating has better light transmittance. I would like to know if all monitors that use matte coating received this kind of coating post-2018.

I don't know what to do and feeling that I'm running out of options

daniel_mate

Patoli Your model is 2021. What I've saw is that this hell started around 2018.

I think the hell started 2011-2012. Win Vista with default ClearType font (then most tech people learnt what is font anti aliasing), moving from LCD/TN to IPS/VA, moving from CCFL to LED back light, MAC discontinued TN laptop monitors (tho that was 2009-10 I think), pushing for higher brightness (just a marketing thing), more colors support (wide gamut, vivid colors bs), changes in drivers/dithering (I think first complains were with Intel)…

Patoli

daniel_mate Maybe. Back these days I never experienced that. I faced some monitors and different systems but I never imaginated that I would suffer something like this.

wlmsn

daniel_mate My 2011 Macbook has a TN in it and it works fine, makes me wonder if IPS is the problem but some on here say theyve had problems with new TN panels too I guess

daniel_mate

wlmsn Probably nobody of us expected this to happen 🙂 I'm with this issue for ~9y. Over the years I realized that glare and high contrast are my main problems, refresh/flicker irrelevant. TN being the oldest technology has the worst contrast, washed out colors, lowest brightness etc. I've tried lot of different monitors in the recent years and for me nothing compares to TN, tho even between TN models some feel better than others (I think mostly due the brightness or type of LEDs they use).

Weird example for me is I've been using iPhones exclusevily for the last decade, I can't tolerate them however once I apply Skinomi mate skin on them, I have no problems. It feels like it replaces their display with a TN one 😃 No more glare and it reduces the contrast, has grainy texture, colors became washed out, it almost blends with the environment like a paper, feels like e-ink display

Patoli

The problem is not the panel but the timeline. I used all kind of technologies without problem. Even TN is in the same vibe looking for more brightness, colors, refresh rate and everything else. Glare was not a problem for me because I use since always smartphones with front glass and glass screen protector, my TVs are glossy and semi glossy. It seems that this grainy scattering of light that recent monitors are using is that what bothers me.

One point that the fellow friend touched is that refresh rate or even flickering is not relevant and that is true for me. My previous monitor was 60Hz with 6 bit + FCR didn't bothered me. Before that most of us used monitors and TVs with flickering and it was OK.

The thing is crazy for me to buy something released in 2017 to solve my problem. The future will be a real trouble.

BlasterFX

Hello

Sorry to bother you, I saw a comment that you made and got me confused

Patoli I returned the P2423D and bought a LG Ultrawide 29UM69G that was released in 2019. I searched a lot of videos to see at least the reflection characteristics and found that 29WK600 from 2018 was more like the Dell that I returned and the one that I bought was like my previous Dell.

And that is it. The antiglare screen seems almost the same as my Dell and the image quality and characteristics not so distant. I've been using and no difficult on focusing, no strain, no eye pain, no headache and stuffs like that.

You bought the LG Ultrawide 29UM69G and what happend?

P2423D similar to 29WK600 and P2317H similar to 29UM69G is this what you're saying?

Here is my story: mnqrKI6.jpeg (2708×2805) (imgur.com) I posted this in 2020...

Then to continue, I sold it, bought 1 AOC VA 2020 CQ27G2 ( returned ) and a Lenovo G32qc-30 VA late 2022 model and returned it recently. Now I stick to my old tv glossy monitor.

Patoli

BlasterFX It was exactly like my Dell P2317H from 2016. No eye strain, no problem of focusing, same kind of reflection.

But it last until yesterday. I updated my Windows 11 to 22H2 and at the moment that the Windows started I noticed something different, My eyes got tired quickly and had some eye pain. It's defficult to even stare.

mike

Patoli Have you tried patching/covering one eye?

Patoli

mike Yes, for a short period of time. I didn't feel anything special.

machala

Patoli

mike

I have to say that recently I realized that Mike's been right all the time, the problem is in us. But patching one eye had no effect on me so I took Mike's wonderful idea to another level: I am now patching both eyes! No eye strain! Problem solved!

Patoli

machala I have to say. Part of the problem is us because most of people don't care about monitor, GPU, driver, Windows or whatever. But something changed hardware and software level that nobody can explain. It was ridiculous see in other topic that even Microsoft people suffered with strain after updating to 22H2 version.

machala

Patoli
Yes, and that's exactly the reason why I will never accept the problem is us. There was a change, there is a difference how things are today compared to the past. We are more sensitive, yes, for others the problem does not get past their pain point. However, I do not believe the problem is non-existent for many other people as well. They probably suffer, but are able to endure it somehow. But it does not mean it won't have drastic effects on their health over longer periods of time. The problem should be exposed to media, I just don't know how to do it.

For me the final proof is my wife: she never felt ANY of the issues I had previously (she was even kind of making fun of me), but in recent years she's started saying for instance that "this screen's picture is not as pleasant to look at as the old one". I of course see very clearly that there seems to be flicker and the picture is terrible. For her, it's just unpleasant. Something's happening, that's for sure.

RobC

machala I have very clear that the main reason is some change in the backlight emission on the new displays, because it cause me not only eye strain but also skin pain. I think it is due to a much higher intensity of the light, specially with oled and PWM screens, where we always receive the maximum brightness of the displays during a percentage of the time. That level may exceed the pain threshold of the most photosensitive people. I could stay in front of old displays for days without any pain. Eyes sense light level on a logarithmic basis, so the peak brightness can be 100 times or more the lowest we perceive when we set it to darkest.

Patoli

machala All of know that suffer from it know that something changed, probably more than just one thing and we all have different problems in different degrees.

What you said is true somehow. I know people that put brightness at minimum level and reading mode. The image quality is terrible. If the person does that with a very good and expensive monitor he has a problem and doesn't know yet.

machala

RobC

Not true, I see unstable picture on the same screen (old monitors) when I use newer graphics cards (and motherboards seem to have impact on this as well). Apart from other people that are getting "symptoms" after some time of use, I, in some cases, immediately see the picture is unstable.

I'm not saying backlight cannot be problematic, but it's definitely not the main cause for me.

Patoli

RobC That makes everything more confuse.

If the problem was just monitor the focus would just be them. But the problem is that changing Windows version, Gpu driver that are software simply can screw with everything.

That is very problematic because we never know what thing can cause strain and we feel insecure. As I said, I updated Windows and that ruined everything even with a monitor that didn't bother me. I rolled back and everything was back to normal. The same display with sabe back light, same subpixels and all the stuffs. What Windows as software could do to cause strain instantaneously? That's crazy.

One funny thing. Today I just changed the RX 6600 to a RTX 3070 that is a big change but nothing significantly happened. I was very insecure expecting that something could go wrong but even changing AMD for Nvidia with different technologies and different drivers was ok. That is also crazy. I'm sure that if I update Windows it will be screwing everything again.

RobC

The real light we receive from a PWM screen is equivalent to setting the screen brightness to maximum. You can test how do you feel in these conditions to detect who is affected by this cause or by others, If setting the backlight brightness to maximum makes the symptoms worse.

RobC

machala
It seems that there are multiple reasons that can cause discomfort to those of us who are in this forum and that makes it difficult to find the correct cause for each one. We are both here for different reasons.

RobC

Patoli Do you only have problems with windows? Doesn't it happen to you with iPhone, Android, Mac, linux or a conventional TV? Many people in this forum suffer with any new screen even if they don't use windows, including the led screens of the latest cars. If you do a simple search in the forum you will find it.

Patoli

RobC Man, I can uso Android, TV, monitor, smartwatch, laptop, car multimedia or whatever thing that has screen. Never had problem with IPS, TN or VA LCD or even OLED. Even my Lenovo laptop with a shit TN panel doesn't cause anything.

All the hell started with the three Dell monitors that I bought and now updating Windows on a screen that was fine did that too. At the beginnig I thoght that was a hardware stuff, but after search here and out there I see that is beyond that. When I updated the Windows and the strain appeared quickly I saw that is hardware and software problem.

It's a very complicated problem to all of us because any variable that we change could bring strain. We don't know if updating a graphic card driver or Windows will screw everything or even buy a new monitor will do that. It brings a big insecurity to us. On this PC I was using a RX 6600 and the day before yesterday when my RTX 3070 arrived I was terrified that changing hardware plus software would screw everything but it didn't. Update Windows to another version was way more worse. That's bizarre man.

I can't say that is only one thing because I tested two of Dell monitors on my other PCs and laptop and sucked. It seemed to I had problems with them as hardware. I will change some stuffs here putting my CPU, motherboard and memory to upgrade my wife's PC and putting some others that I bought in this PC that I use more. I'm interested to see if changing so much components will interfere.

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