Got back GTX 970 I used for 10y with no sever strain! Now.. Horrendous strain!

simplex

gregtsakil9 im starting to feel the same effects tha I had with my 3090 alone

me too

try minimizing the application assigned to 3090 to tray to feel relief 🙂

gregtsakil9

do you mean minimize the apps that use the 3090 ?

simplex

If the monitor is connected to iGPU, you see the windows interface, which is rendered by iGPU. When you associate a dGPU with an application and launch it, you see the dGPU processing output data copied to iGPU buffer

You can associate Notepad launch on a dGPU, and running Notepad after that will give you eye-strain. But if you close (or minimize Notepad in windows taskbar), the eye-strain will disappear

I did that test with davinci resolve, and minimizing it to taskbar avoid eye-strain. It mean you cannot use rtx line cards without eye-strain at all, even with such dual-grapfic card tricks

gregtsakil9

simplex

That is so sad that this is happening I bet the only workaround would be to have a second pc in the same space that we can connect via ethernet and remote view and work with it ..probably in a very good network enviroment to reduce latency…

simplex

gregtsakil9

Yep, looks like possible solution

I also tried change energy efficiency settings from Optimal to Max in nvidia control panel, vsync to fast, latency to ultra… PCI-E express version change from 5 to 3, different PCI-E slots ( CPU / motherboard ) - nothing helped

gregtsakil9

simplex

What monitor do you have?

simplex

gregtsakil9 What monitor do you have?

I have 2 monitors:

benq bl2420z - it has a very slow 6bit+2FRC *VA panel AUO m238hvn01.0, I assume that with its slow crystal switching it “smoothes out” its own FRC and dithering from the PC - very good in terms of eye-strain
xiaomi mi 27 2k 165hz with AUO M270DAN02.B panel - a more modern monitor with more aggressive (noticable) FRC (vertical lines that prevent work at 60Hz and become invisible to the eye at 120Hz and above). But the feeling from monitor's work is stronger than from Benq at same equipment. I think it is 6bit + 4bit Hi-FRC panel
This week I tried AOC Q27B3MA and Philips 275V8LA - 2k60hz and 8 bit on paper. Both have FRC, but AOC have very agressive one, which made monitor not usable after 1 hour. Philips have TPM270WQ1-SG1G012 panel which I can say is quite same in term of comfortable to xiaomi at 120hz. TPM panel have noticable horizontal lines

I will post vids where you can see dithering each of my monitors to see difference. All monitors were forced in 8-bit 60hz mode with cleared EDID data

gregtsakil9

simplex thats great I cant wait to see and compare !! how can I find out what is the panel of my monitors ?I cant seem to find it even searching my hardware id ..have you also tryied different os ?without drivers just for testing

simplex

gregtsakil9

Here is vids link -> https://ledstrain.org/d/2807-safe-hardware-pc-builds-list/15

"how can I find out what is the panel of my monitors" - sometimes in reviews they write the panel, sometimes in the engineering menu of the monitor they write the panel ID, and the most proven way is to disassemble the monitor and look for panel ID

gregtsakil9

After extensive testing, I discovered that inversion artifacts during the UFO test produced different results on two separate PCs. This confirmed that the issue isn't with the monitor or the GPU but with the entire PC setup.

I tested my GTX 970 on the new PC, and the inversion artifacts persisted. This has led me to suspect that this issue may be connected to why I’ve felt frustrated for the past two years with my 13700K system.

The strangest part is that after a fresh Windows reinstall, the problem seemed to disappear initially. However, once I installed all the drivers, the artifacts reappeared. When I only installed the basic drivers, the issue improved but didn't completely go away.

I’m also noticing different patterns during the inversion uniformity test on the UFO website depending on the setup.

It feels like I’m finally narrowing down the cause of the problem!

https://www.testufo.com/inversion#pattern=uniformity&ppf=1

Additionally, during the UFO test with multiple frame rates, I set it to the slowest setting and noticed a pulsating effect when the image moves. This issue doesn’t occur on my older setup.

While I’ve managed to improve this on my newer setup, there’s still a noticeable difference in the inversion artifacts. To clarify, this is not related to color gradation or any kind of panel issue—it’s something deeper in the system configuration.

It feels like I’m getting closer to fully understanding what’s causing these discrepancies!

I feel like the pulsating effect resembles a strange frequency, which seems to originate from something related to the motherboard or CPU. It could potentially be an issue with power delivery or interference at the hardware level.Tha is making us sick..As soon as I sit on my old pc I feel the better ..

JTL

gregtsakil9 It could potentially be an issue with power delivery or interference at the hardware level.Tha is making us sick

Something else to consider. I said to someone else here when discussing the potential implications of RAM.

I don't know about the (obvious) potential between RAM timings and [graphical issues leading to] eyestrain, but I have seen faulty RAM that was otherwise functional and would cause severe input (mouse/keyboard) lag and would otherwise slow down the system despite being otherwise "stable" (as in not suffering from apparent crashes or other instability). So something related potentially causing video output issues would not be entirely surprising.

XMP is just a fancy name for a preset RAM overclock so it being an issue would be a possibility.

gregtsakil9

what chat gpt sugested …

1. Power Delivery Issues (PSU or Motherboard VRMs):

The PSU might be delivering unstable voltage, leading to interference that affects the GPU or display output.
The motherboard's power regulation (VRMs) could also be introducing noise or instability, especially if it's underpowered or faulty.

Next Step: Test with a known reliable PSU or monitor the voltage fluctuations using tools like HWInfo to see if there are any irregularities under load.

2. Signal Interference or EMI (Electromagnetic Interference):

Pulsating artifacts can sometimes be caused by electrical interference, either from the motherboard, GPU, or nearby components.
Poor shielding on the motherboard or GPU could amplify this issue.

Next Step: Test the system in a different environment to rule out external interference or use a different cable (preferably high-quality DisplayPort/HDMI).

3. CPU or Motherboard Fault:

If the artifacts persist even with different GPUs, it points toward a possible issue with the PCIe lanes, chipset, or the CPU itself.
The curtain-like pulsation could stem from data mismatches or improper signal handling at the PCIe level.

Next Step:

Run diagnostics like Intel’s Processor Diagnostic Tool for the CPU.
Ensure the motherboard's BIOS is up to date to rule out chipset-level bugs.

4. Driver Conflicts or Software Issues:

The fact that the issue improves with basic drivers suggests there could be a conflict or improper configuration with advanced drivers.
Some drivers might not be fully optimized for your specific motherboard and GPU setup.

Next Step:

Stick with only the necessary drivers (e.g., chipset, GPU) and avoid utilities or beta drivers.
Test a fresh installation of Windows without additional software to see if the artifacts persist.

jordan

gregtsakil9 speaking of emf check this out.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/eye-pain-does-windows-10-apply-software-driven/c180e17c-960f-419f-a621-df89fdfff84a

Also I have tested multiple motherboard with the same ryzen 7950x igpu and found b650 to be most comfortable whole x670e was extremely brutal to my eyes/brain while in the bios. Itx B650i unify MSI was excellent while x670e strix ATX board was just insanely bad.

Other ones ive tried which may be okay is the b650e-i phantom gaming and b650e-i strix when I briefly set them up in BIOS for crypto mining. The x670e I couldn't configure because it felt so bad. The b650i unify is what I had the most time on in bios/hiveos (Linux) to my tv which seemed fine.

gregtsakil9

this pc makes me sick

https://ibb.co/RH8fVVx

this dosent

https://ibb.co/tzVnxM6

what is going on ???

gregtsakil9

this is what my new pc did but was fixed after reinstalling win 11 latest

https://streamable.com/mg5bnb

its not suposed to have visible gey shadows or light in the middle of the 4 sections

pause the video at the middle and see

simplex

I found some dependencies due to DDR freq memory: four different 5600mhz modules gives me strain in 2x miniPC, when 4800mhz modules - not

gregtsakil9

simplex o God … could I check with lowering ram freq? or do I need to test with new ram ?

gregtsakil9

simplex how did you check for this ?

simplex

gregtsakil9 with new ram ?

Lowering RAM freq, with lowered timings - didnt worked for me. DDR5 base freq is 4800mhz, I tested 2x miniPC: intel 13700h which support 5200mhz and ryzen 8845hs which support 5600mhz. 13700h miniPC was absolutely comforty with 4800mhz memory modules.

I bought new 5600mhz ram and insert in in 13700h, they worked at 5200mhz and I got strain - after that I return modules in the store. MiniPC doesnt allow me to adjust memory settings so I bough another miniPC (amd based) with preinstalled 5600 memory, and it start to strain me. I reduced memory freq to 4800, but this didnt help. I insert 4800mhz memory from 13700h miniPC and screen become more calm but still not as 13700h made. But much more better than 5600mhz modules ( I tried to use only 1 module, this also didnt solve issue )

gregtsakil9

simplex is there an image test that you do that shows the differences? or you just feel it by your symtoms ?

gregtsakil9

gregtsakil9 the pc that I have no issues is 6700k with 2400 ddr4 rams the pc im having problems is 13700f with 5600 ddr5

simplex

gregtsakil9 feel it by your symtoms ?

this, only feelings…

your test above flicker in my safe asus laptop also…

my bad 12600k + z690p d4 was with DDR4 3200mhz modules. Not using XMP and work with 2133mhz base decrease strain, but didnt solve problem..

my safe laptop also have 2x 8gb DDR4 2400mhz modules

simplex

gregtsakil9 13700f с 5600 ddr5

miniPC 13700h + iris XE 80EU + 4800mhz DDR5 is safe. But not sure if another PC vendors can give same result

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