si_edgey Maybe the monitors differ somehow. I have two "flicker-free" BenQ EW2740L, and one of them is worse for my eyes. I measured them with my oscilloscope at the same brightness and found they both flicker pretty identically at both 60 Hz (probably the pixel refresh flicker) and 25 kHz. But there is also a third frequency: ~450 Hz on the worse one and ~800 Hz on the better one. Those monitors are not really flicker-free and flicker differently.
What works for you, what do you use now without problems?
- Edited
KM KM can you test other displays and see if there is any correlation between these spikes and your strain? This is a simple test that would give us good data...if all straining displays have a 450hz spike etc then we have a lead...if it doesn't correlate then it's not the issue. This is a USB oscilloscope with software right? Could you take it to a Best Buy or Media Markt or whatever is in your country and get some broad data? We are seriously lacking in any reproducable data and every good and bad thing anyone has seems random and unexplainable.
a month later
With regards to anxiety, the fact I am (right now) on a comfortable PC with no symptoms doesn't mean I am anxious about being on a computer, it's the fear that potentially all tech will be unusable for me within the next 5 years (yet is a compulsory part of modern life) that keeps me awake at night.
We can all stockpile old tech, and there are still some stellar W7 builds that can still be made and we can still utilise 2000-early 2010's specs extremely well - but (if you want to stay online at least), it's not going to last forever.
I'm in a bit of a moral quandry at the moment; unemployed but want to get back into work, but will computer work in an office become increasingly difficult due to everything being on W10 now and everything flickering/dithering? All medical professionals and optometrists boil it down to eye strain, nobody in a professional capacity is actually acknowledging the link between the modern output and our symptoms.
Can more be done to push this issue in the public eye (facebook groups, online petitions, spamming support forums
). Are there direct insider contacts we can get hold of? Will an open source driver for Windows ever work? All these questions and unfortunately no solid answers yet.
AGI and please don't update to 10.13.5 or higher. It seems that Apple has changed graphics drivers and rendering. Reverting my machine to 10.13.4 solved a lot of issues for me.
- Edited
si_edgey Could you please share how do you use the dell 9560 with the windows 10? How do you keep it from updating, is there a crack, or is it a cracked version? I had one before with old version of win and it was good, but I foolishly returned it.
Also was installing the older version on it easy?
I am considering getting one and trying it, but if it doesnt work id still need to return it as its quite expensive, so I must not mess it up.
2 months later
Samsung SA850 27' PLS, 0 brightness. It has pwm but a soft one. Gtx 670 Windows 10 latest updates. No issues.
On work everybody uses 23 HP monitors. I am with old 19 Inches. The new ones kill my eyes.
Phone: HTC one (Android 5) used to work. Now is not working the phone. No audio.
Bought a Xperia XZ 2 only usable few minutes a day. If I use it more I have eye pain, and twitches all over the body, especially legs.
19 days later
- Edited
martin Asus PB238Q has FRC: 8 bits (6 bits + FRC)
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/2455800
Maybe using VGA, removes FRC.
JTL BenQ XL2720Z also has FRC: 8 bits (6 bits + FRC)
a month later
The more I read the more confused I get about this issue. At work there is a large laboratory with 16 dell p5050 PC`s and Dell p2217 monitors. I can use these with only minimal headache/eyestrain but if I bring one down to my office I get an instant long lasting headache. In the lab using one I am aware of the large surrounding airy space in my peripheral vision but in the office there is a filing cabinet on my immediate left, a wall on my immediate right and a room divider in front of me behind the monitor. Do all of these contribute to my eyestrain/headache?? Are your surroundings and the visual impact of these part of the problem? This might explain why its possible to use a device in a store yet find it gives major problems when you buy it and get it home?
MacBook Pro 2017 15" Radeon pro 560 connected via display port to Dell U2717D or Dell U2713H works well. MacOS Sierra to Mojave.
Native screen of macbook feels offensive right away, I can't use it at all.
(I've turned off touchbar, added matte screen protector, changed white point to warmer, lowered resolution and changed billion to million colors with SwitchResX, bought glasses, run on 100% brightness only with screen dimmer — and nothing helps.)
iPhone 6S plus works just perfect for me.
poliakov MacBook Pro 2017 15" Radeon pro 560
Is this a Mac which automatically switches between two graphic cards, and the other one is an Intel? Is the eyestrain independent of the card, assuming you can tell which one is being used? Sorry for the basic questions, I am quite ignorant on the topic.
Interesting you get rid of the eyestrain by plugging the Mac into an external monitor. With my Dell laptop last year it was the other way around, I had more troubles on monitor. Maybe I should give it a go with my MacBook Air. I had understood dithering and whatever strains would be "transferred" onto the external screen...or maybe it is again subjective?
- Edited
Hi. Yes, this model switches between graphic cards, but I see no difference with “switch graphic card” checkbox turned on or off.
I’m also very far from understanding nature of the problem, can only share my own experience. I literally see that the macbook screen (and all these modern windows screens) is not static. At some point I installed SwitchResX, lowered resolution and changed colors from billions to millions. And screen became almost static. As static as my external monitor. But “more static” mackbook screen keeps causing all symptoms just as fast. Since at 100% it should not have PWM, dithering/pwm strain theory falls apart.
- Edited
poliakov I literally see that the macbook screen (and all these modern windows screens) is not static.
Hard to express in words. What seems to bother me the most is perceiving the background as unstable. The white around the letters kind of glows and is not steady, very different from e-ink. I remember that maybe 5-6 years ago the retina display in shops looked great to me. Now I refused to switch to the latest MacBook at work because when I look at the ones of my colleagues I immediately feel numb.
poliakov lowered resolution
In the past lowering the resolution was a game changer for me, I could use for as long as I wanted without any symptom an otherwise unusable laptop or monitor. Do you have an explanation why it would help/why it does not help anymore with the newer technology? Someone, I believe @KM, proposed the effects of temporal dithering may be weakened. What is your thought?
JTL What medical treatment?
SeniorTaquito Something something cannabis medicine