new-jdm I've tested this, by default (if Stillcolor is not activated) it still dithers but yes Stillcolor stops the dithering coming from macOS. However, all the monitors I have with DVI have their own built-in FRC so I'm still left with that coming from the monitor's panel itself after disabling dithering.
I disabled dithering on Apple silicon + Introducing Stillcolor macOS M1/M2/M3
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DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs you can always start hacking the monitor
Here is the info I got from Huawei for the Mateview 28.2" after nagging for a while to enter the secret engineering mode. Unfortunately there wasn't much that helped out there, but it seemed more stuff could be done with their internal software after enabling the connection there. Also considered intercepting the software update over Wi-Fi, but I guess I had work to do at some point. I'm sure other monitors has an engineering mode and hidden settings as well.
Thank you for your patience.
Below you can find the answer to your questions:
1. Our display is DC dimming and does not support PWM dimming, which is widely used on OLED screens.
2. There are no other parts of the display that can cause flickering and headaches
3. a PC connection is required.
4. In the Windows operating system, enable HDR in the display settings (Please follow the steps on this link to enable HDR consumer.huawei.com/en/support/content/en-us15815407/) .The Windows operating system will then display 8-bit color depth with dithering. However, the HUAWEI MateView can use its dual T-con hardware design and chipset's built-in color depth conversion algorithm to display 1.07 billion colors with a resolution of 3840 x 2560 pixels and a refresh rate of 60 Hz.
5. it is recommended that you use the default display value.Please follow the steps below to output refresh rate:
1. Connect the monitor to the device (laptop or mobile phone) and ensure that the monitor is connected in wired mode,
2) Press the SmartBar key to access the main menu. Set the brightness to 88-90, volume to 38-40, color gamut to original color, and sharpness to 43-45.
3. Tap the power button to turn off the screen. Tap the power button again to turn on the screen. Press the button on the right of the smart bar immediately. A black box is displayed in the upper left corner, indicating that the engineering mode is enabled.
4) In engineering mode, set BURNIN and DFM to ON to enter the test interface.If you wish to exit from the test interface, please note that this method applies only to service store repairs.
Not sure if I agree with them about the flickering part
DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs regarding stuck with FRC. With custom EDID at 8 bit and default color and contrast settings on the monitor it should have no reason to dither? Or does the factory calibration mess that up anyway? Tbh I have no idea
Does this mean mac mini or any mac laptop connected to an external monitor should not have any issues other than what the monitor introduces? Will it be as good as a windows machine connected to the same monitor?
DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I see. This monitor is from something like 2008. I am not sure if they had FRC back then? I can't find the specs because it is so old.
sbapat I had the same question, but got an assumption due to convergence of technology, things getting more similar than different. It is very likely mac mini apple silicon is exactly the same stuff as in laptops. Best bet would be getting last i7, it should be around 300-500 usd/eur. Last model was 2018.
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new-jdm They definitely had FRC back then, just more primitive and in a more repetitive and noticeable pattern.
I have a samsung from 2008 where I can see it dither on grays while moving my head left to right (even connected to a dither-free old laptop).
I also have an even older NEC monitor, early-mid 2000s? And it dithers even harder regardless of what it's connected to, I can totally see it adding this repeating checkerboard pattern to all colors over and over again with just my eyes.
A lot of older monitors commonly used 6-bit+FRC to achieve 16 million colors.
However, in the 2000s, it was more likely these monitors were used without activating their dithering, because older OSes like Windows XP & 7 offered pure 6-bit / "thousands of colors" modes in display settings that were sometimes activated by default.
(This means in the 2000s, your monitor may have not been activating it's "dithering feature" yet if whatever old computer was used with it back then was only sending a pure 6-bit signal.)
However, newer versions of Windows and macOS only support 8-bit and higher — Windows does not list any 6-bit modes in List All Modes anymore starting in 2012 with Windows 8.
(With the reason why being that the DWM/"Aero" hardware-accelerated compositor — which is always-on in Windows 8 and later — only supports 16 million colors and higher. This is in contrast to Windows 7 and earlier which also offered a "Windows Basic" mode that would activate when running at lower color depths, and XP and earlier which did not include the DWM at all.)
This is one reason why even older monitors may be causing more strain than they "used to" back in the 2000s.
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async They are all 6-bit + FRC monitors, their own FRC dithering will always activate when they are being sent even a pure, stable 8-bit signal.
I'm pretty sure they are all capable of disabling their own dithering if they are sent a pure 6-bit signal, such as with "thousands of colors" modes in older operating systems like Windows XP/Vista/7.
However, in a modern OS, the absolute minimum you're usually able to select is 8-bit.
Windows 8 and later no longer list any 6-bit / "thousands of colors" modes in advanced display settings, and there seem to currently be no resources online about if this would even possible to force.
So I assume there is no way we can reverse engineer the control of display pwm in macbooks?
DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I'm 90% sure that I could do 6-bit with AW EDID Editor some time ago, however when trying recently the OS seemed to ignore it, like it does with certain things. I use this for 10 to 8-bit successfully. Figured it was either due to Sonoma upgrade, or that it simply didn't renegotiate or something.
madmozg There's still lots to explore there, and I don't even think all the IOReg values has been explored, apart from most of the framebuffer ones. There is also hacking with the standby mode in the framebuffer that might work, as well as exploring the backlight daemon. Imo it is highly unlikely that they don't have api's to change the behaviour for testing.
Relevant article with a rather simple example on calling apis in private frameworks.
How to Reverse Engineer an Undocumented macOS API to Use It in a Swift Project | Apriorit
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In case it is useful for anyone
Log streaming can include the source method for some stuff.
sudo log stream --level debug --style compact --source --predicate 'eventMessage CONTAINS[c] "backlight"'
Stored log level can be changed. Does not affect streamed logs.
sudo log config --mode "level:debug"
Quick command to inspect a specific process
sudo log stream --level debug --process "$(pgrep corebrightnessd)"
Certain IOReg values can be changed to enable more logging
sudo log stream --level debug --style compact --source --predicate 'eventMessage CONTAINS[c] "PCC"'
"PCC2DLedAccelLog": NSNumber(value: 1), // NSNumber(value: 0)
"BLMAHOutputLogEnable": true, // false
"APTEnableLogs": true, // false
"BLMAHStatsLogEnable": true, // false
"PCCEnableLogs": true, // false
Hi @aiaf
Thank you for your great job with the Stillcolor!
I have the same eye strain issues that people described here. This week I sold my MBP 14" M1 pro (macOS Sonoma) and bought a 16" M1 pro instead (installed macOS Monterey ver. 12.3).
I read on some forums that macOS Monterey is a bit better for eye care than Ventura or Sonoma. But I can`t use your app on MacOS Monterey (ver. 12.3), it requires macOS v.13.0 or higher.
I don't wanna upgrade it, because feel that macOS Monterey is better for my eyes.
**
So can I ask you to include** MacOS Monterey (ver. 12.3 or earlier) in the Stillcolor support?
Thanks in advance
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Hey waydabber
Thanks for updating the BetterDisplay!
Can I ask you to add the availability to use **(https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDisplay/releases/download/v2.0.0-pre-release/BetterDisplay-v2.3.0-b28290-pre.zip)**on macOS Monterey ver. 12.3 or earlier? I found that the ver. 12.3 or earlier macOS version is better for eye care. I am afraid to upgrade my 16" m1 pro to the upper version due to eye strain.
Thanks in advance!
aiaf my mistake. Got a bit carried away and didn't see that the log item was from Stillcolor. Not sure how to access them then.
I saw some references to it being possible to show what is behind <Private> in many places, but I have no idea if that enables watching other log files as well. Or there are ways to see what does are written to, but it's even more busy than watching the log without filtering.
https://github.com/sveinbjornt/Sloth
Not sure that they are persisted tho
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Since I'm returning M1 Air very soon (after also testing the M2 Air, which was worse)… I compared M1 Air vs. M2 Touch Bar Pro one more time.
I'm keeping the M2 Touch Bar Pro.
I will be comprehensive here as I want to give forum members a solid idea of what it feels like to use these Macs.
I also want to make it clear why the M2 Touch Bar Pro is just so uniquely different from any other Mac screen I've ever used and why it's worth your attention.
M1 Air with Stillcolor (both Ventura 13.0 and 13.6.6):
It's "fine", feels generally like the usable Intel Macs. but whenever the color of the screen changes (e.g. going from light content to a dark window appearing) it feels like it gets "hazy" to me and I feel a wave of tiredness coming over.
This also makes certain wallpapers and text editor themes feel "dissociative" + "I want to change it" feeling like I get from a lot of other devices too. Not as bad as on devices with forced temporal dithering though.
This is VERY likely connected to the PWM-like flicker that is present on camera on certain shades on M1/M2 Airs.
Although, I do get this feeling even on some of the most usable Intel Macs, like the 2015 12" MacBook (which by the way, also exhibits PWM-like flicker on grays).
(Given this, I thought for a while that this feeling was just something I would always feel in general — but on the other hand, the M2 Touch Bar Pro switches things up SO much. It doesn't cause that feeling at ALL…)
Unfortunately, on the M1 Air stuff never really feels like it's entirely in focus, especially light text on dark backgrounds. Stuff just looks "kinda blurry" on here at all times.
Temporal dithering is still solved "for the most part" with Stillcolor though, I'm mostly feeling things that are more adjacent to my "PWM symptoms". This means it's still better than a lot of the Intel Iris/UHD/AMD MacBooks which are very hard for me to tolerate.
Even though it's still possible enough to work, take notes, read some longer articles etc. on the M1 Air — which I wouldn't be able to tolerate at all on a really bad temporally dithered screen — there's just something "off" about it.
After looking away from the screen, I also feel like everything in the real world feels "lower contrast" and I can sometimes literally see ghost images of horizontal lines. This also seems to be associated with PWM as I also get this feeling looking away from my (actually very usable) Windows laptop that also flickers on camera.
However, it's "good enough" where if it was my only laptop, I don't think I ever would have realized I had vision issues connected to screens (I would have thought it was "just me feeling tired"…). I don't really get "eye pain", "seasickness", or extreme reading disability from using this laptop — only tiredness, brain fog, and dry eyes. This is with Stillcolor though so maybe it would be way worse on me without.
At the same time though, it's not good enough where today — knowing what I know — I can totally tell when certain feelings (like that wave of tiredness) are literally coming from a specific device, and that I would feel so much better with a more comfortable screen.
There is one thing I do really like about it though, which is the lower contrast + less deep black level. It makes some types of content feel "relaxing". However, it doesn't outweigh the symptoms I still get from using the M1 Air's display.
(In comparison, the M2 TB Pro has much deeper blacks and it's something I definitely have to get used to. It's a little disorienting "at first" but the M2 TB Pro screen still does so many other things right that the M1 Air fails at, that it's not a deal-breaker at all.)
But now…
13" M2 Touch Bar Pro with Stillcolor (Ventura 13.2.1):
I used this directly after using the Air so I was already going into this feeling what I described above.
But even that didn't change my experience with the M2 Touch Bar Pro.
There is something different about this screen.
I used a really bright and colorful wallpaper that I find very beautiful — but on other laptops, I would probably change it quickly because it would feel like it's "distracting me away" from my windows. On the M2 TB Pro, I used the wallpaper for a whole day and barely even thought about it.
Certain Visual Studio Code themes, browser themes, wallpapers… that I would find "hazy" or "tiredness-inducing" on other laptops just don't do that here. Colors always look normal. It feels like I can "literally see new colors" because I adjust so quickly on here — instead of certain colors looking weird, vibrating, or fuzzy. There are themes that I would never touch before that suddenly I think "look pretty cool".
After using the M2 TB Pro for a bit I just totally stopped feeling the waves of tiredness that I was just feeling directly before while using the M1 Air. I immediately feel way more awake and energetic using this.
Large photos actually feel colossally large instead of like I can only "tunnel vision" into one patch at a time.
Symmetrical graphics and page layouts look perfectly symmetrical.
I can visually process the left and right side of a webpage at the same time.
When I am typing really fast, I can keep my eyes focused on exactly where I'm typing without even wanting to look away or close my eyes, because I don't feel tired.
Stillcolor works perfectly, no temporal dithering symptoms at all. Everything is still.
When a website loads, it feels like the whole page appears to me all at the same time, instead of feeling like I have to take a second to process what just appeared on the screen.
After looking away from the M2 TB Pro screen — even after tiring my eyes out on the M1 Air just an hour ago — the real world looks higher contrast and more colorful again. I see barely any horizontal lines or ghost images after looking away.
Everything looks flat. Overlays on webpages looks like they're on the exact plane as what's behind it. I barely have to ever shift focus. Large shadows aren't distracting. False feelings of 3D depth are nearly nonexistent.
I can see so many things at once.
By the way, I'm still on the Color LCD profile.
Sometimes I'm feeling a little bit disoriented because of how many new and unique feelings this screen is activating within me at the same time — but it stops after I get used to it.
If you're concerned about what I just said, it's nothing like "bad screen disorientation" which never stops.
This is a totally different feeling and seems to be simply psychological, not screen-related, because it actually gets better over time and not worse. (For example, I'm not feeling any disorientation at all right now.)
I know my PWM symptoms, I know my dithering symptoms, and I can tell I don't feel them while using this.
The only issues I have with this screen are overly deep black levels and a high amount of glare, but what's suprising is I can tell that this is not coming from flicker — because I'm already getting used to it.
This feels like something my eyes can actually adjust to, for once.
(Disclaimer: despite all this, there is still a panel lottery. My first Touch Bar Pro panel had the Yellow Tint™ and a really noticeable "fade to green" on the right. It was still pretty good TBH because it also did not flicker on camera, but I exchanged it and got a perfect panel with the legendary "barely reddish tint" on my second Touch Bar Pro!)
In conclusion:
If you find Apple Silicon laptops unusable, try the 13" M2 Touch Bar Pro with Stillcolor. It's worth it.
It's screen is a totally different beast from the M1 Air, M2 Air, M3 Air, and the mini-LED Pros.
It's the only Apple Silicon laptop that doesn't flicker at all on dark grays in a 240hz slow-motion video.
If no other MacBooks have worked, the M2 Touch Bar Pro might surprise you.
Pinging aiaf as from all of my testing I've done over the last few weeks, I believe that the M2 Touch Bar Pro is the best laptop for Stillcolor. On this specific Mac, you get not only improved external display output — but truly improved built-in display output too.
(and potentially the M1 Touch Bar Pro, but I haven't tested it and there's few reasons to buy M1 when M2 is usable)
Wow that sounds very promising. So is this the 2022 MacBook pro 13" M2 then? Unsure if it matters but what ram/SSD is yours?
DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Awesome. Can you post the output of ioreg so I can compare / diff it to the M1 Max? Does it use the new MobileFramebuffer? Would be interesting to see exactly what features are different in how it renders things.
Note that this command contain personal information (name), so be sure to open it in a text editor first.
ioreg -lrbit -d0 -w0 -r -c AppleCLCD2 -a \
| sed -e '/^\t*<data>/,/^\t*<\/data>/ { /^\(\t*\)<data>\(.*\)/ { s//\1<string>_data:\2/; h; d; }; /^\t*<\/data>\(.*\)/! { s/^\t\(.*\)/\1/; H; d; }; /^\t*<\/data>\(.*\)/ { s//\1:data_<\/string>/; H; g; s/\n//g; }; }' \
| plutil -convert json -r - -o -