I disabled dithering on Apple silicon + Introducing Stillcolor macOS M1/M2/M3

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

async NormalMode was described here https://ledstrain.org/d/2686-i-disabled-dithering-on-apple-silicon-introducing-stillcolor-macos-m1m2m3/291

bpo19

karut I was going to try the MBP M2 TB first, but @DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs findings is that M1 Air is easier on the eyes using StillColor so I tried that first.

@Rikl Haven't found one yet. M2 Air was the most tolerable apple product that I tried last year but still returned it. I wonder how it would be with StillColor. Are you keeping the M1? Does it give you eye strain and/or headaches?

Rikl

bpo19 I've had the M1 since 2021 and used it sparingly because of the eyestrain. So I didn't use screens as much as I'd like to. With Stillcolor, I can use the M1 much longer. At one point I bought an M2 to replace it, but side-by-side it was much worse than M1 so I returned the M2.

I haven't found a modern screen that does not give me eyestrain. That's why I asked if you knew of one.

I don't get headaches so that's something.

karut

bpo19 But he also mention a possible IF:

The 00000000 panels on M2 TB Pro are better and don't cause the same symptoms, but yeah m1air (at least my panel) is wayyyyy better in terms of more "relaxing" contrast, colors, and less glare as long as the "dips in brightness on every frame" don't affect you.

That's why I said that perhaps the MBP is worth trying 😉

bpo19

Rikl No, I wish. Still on a 2015 mbp, iphone 8, and a non-smart lg tv. Haven't been able to replace any. I also tried an hp, dell, and msi and tried to use ditherig but it didn't work. What I was going to try next is one more M1 air to see if I win the panel lottery and was also looking at an lg gram to try out but I'm not hopeful lol.

karut

Rikl You mean M1 with Stillcolor is more comfortable than M2 MBA with Stillcolor?

Rikl

karut This was before Stillcolor, so don't know.

bpo19

karut would also be curious to know this

Rikl

karut No dips on mine

karut

Rikl Then you can't really compare the two. Nobody here could tolerate the M2 Air with gpu dithering.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Rikl film it showing dark gray (Stone solid color wallpaper) fullscreen at max brightness in 240hz slow motion through a modern phone camera

you will see the flickering brightness dips synced up at around the screen's refresh rate every frame in the recording

it will happen no matter if Stillcolor is active or inactive, it is most likely related to backlight PWM and not the LCD itself

doesn't happen on M2 Touch Bar Pro, so M2 TB may be better for some who are extremely flicker sensitive. however, M2 TB has a much worse screen lottery (there are some totally OK panels, and some REALLY STRAINING ones, I experienced both!!) and deeper contrast and black levels + brighter whites overall on M2 TBs can definitely feel less comfortable for a good amount of people here.

in the end I preferred the m1air as I got a nearly perfect panel first try, there is like so little glare on it even though it's glossy, and the "brightness dips on every frame" style of PWM seems to be OK for me because it's such a low flicker depth (and unlike dithering, it scans uniformly across the screen all at once).

i'm past return period. officially KEEPING the m1air!

Rikl

karut Let me clarify that. I could tolerate the M1 for a short period, the M2 not at all. Both with no Stillcolor.

BTW. BetterDisplay+Stage Manager+Metal does the dim/bright thing on my M1. I disabled Metal and it's fine.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Rikl Yep, and I do not reccomend using Metal mode on m1air anyway, it either doesn't do anything or even seems to possibly makes the screen worse to my eyes. As I was saying before, the default color table mode works better.

Metal mode only seems to be useful on M2 TB Pro

waydabber

Rikl Yes, Metal does not play nicely with Stage Manager transitions. But note that Metal rendering is really only need if you want software XDR upscaling without color table support (the only major use case I can think of is Intel Macs with external third party HDR displays). For simple dimming even with color table support turned off you don't need to enable Metal. Metal gives some added image adjustments as well when enabled but those are all available for color table based adjustments too. For XDR upscaling on the built-in screen of Apple Silicon it is best to use the native way (via the BetterDisplay XDR preset) or color table, not Metal. Metal will cause some CPU and GPU overhead (not very significant on Apple Silicon but on an Intel mac with iGPU there is a real frame drop when enabled). This is why Metal rendering is really enabled as a last resort by the app (with a warning on Intel iGPU Macs) and the option is somewhat difficult to enable by the user (you need to change particular obscure settings in particular ways to switch to it 🙂).

@DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs - I don't think Metal rendering should introduce added temporal or spatial dithering but it is true that the transformations are done using floating point values and it is up to the system to decide how to render those colors - but this is the same with color table based adjustments as well. But if you clearly see a difference on some Macs then it must be there, macs do a lot of funny things during rendering, desktop composition, scaling etc. as we all know and what happens differs from Mac model to Mac model.

Rikl

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs l guess I can't see the brightness dips. Maybe because I never have the brightness above 50%. Anyway, I won't go looking for it in case I can't unsee it.

And so, Stillcolor FTW.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Rikl it happens on all brightness levels, and similar to other PWM is not obviously visible to your eyes but can be seen through a slow motion camera. but unlike other PWM, the flicker depth is much lower (basically imperceptible on white), it is not at all a "strobe light" like how PWM typically is on OLED and TVs LOL

but yeah even though i know about it, (quite unlike other more aggressive forms of PWM) i don't seem to be that sensitive to it at all — because the screen is working great for me!

my windows 8.1 laptop that has the same "PWM-like brightness dips on camera" issue but is also 100% usable for me as long as dithering is disabled, so that lines up. seems like we are both simply just "not affected" by this specific form and amount of flicker.

Stillcolor is what has finally made the m1air screen completely usable (and even more usable than most Intel Macs in many ways too) which is so awesome

bpo19

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Going to try one more M1 air to see how it is. Do you think there is any difference between a 7 core and 8 core version? I went with the 8 core for the first one. Not sure if that matters?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

bpo19 i have 8 core and mine is good, so pretty sure specs do not matter for panel lottery

i have 8 core 16gb 2tb

Rikl

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs 7 core for me. No complaints. Using Stillcolor of course.

async

Some findings regarding regular color profiles on M1 Max. When using reduced Metal brightness certain color profiles gets limited bit depth. It happens on CG Linear and one of the sRGB profiles I downloaded. I guess there are widely different ways color profiles can be built, and these are linear or something. This is pretty useful if you want to look into color shifts while using the ui as well.

Also, I noticed that when resizing a color wheel with the ColorSync RGB profile it will do a brightness or color adjustment 1-2 sec after stopping. The same happens when moving the mouse over it. It doesn't seem to happen on other color profiles. No idea what is special about that one or what it actually is. Seems to happen in both Edge and Chrome, but not Safari.

waydabber

async That's wild. Does this happen with external displays as well? (Normally Color Profiles are not allowed for XDR displays as this is replaced by what's in the XDR presets, but I see you have that enabled in the app - that is a hack actually 😁).

Interestingly this effect seems to be similar to the quantization filter for color table adjustments. That also allows one to investigate/make more visible how colors are subtly altered/animated (in time) for various UI effects.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

async it will do a brightness or color adjustment 1-2 sec after stopping. The same happens when moving the mouse over it

reminds me of what the m2 touch bar pro (LCD) was doing when focusing/unfocusing a gpu-powered window like ableton live or blender while metal color dimming adjustments were enabled, it would get bright while actively using it, but when inactive it would wait a few seconds then get dim again. moving mouse over it would also make it bright

in that case it's definitely related to HDR/EDR

and btw, unlike the m2 touch bar pro and the mini-LED models, the m1air doesn't do any of this at all (despite also claiming to "support" HDR on apple's website, but possibly only for videos on the m1air whereas the touch bar pro supports/emulates it for the UI as well?)

i don't think any of this will affect external displays, but for the internal display, this probably has even more significant effects and quirks on the mini-LED models than the other LCD models

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