Lenovo T480 - Yes, Win10 1809 downgrade *matters* just like others say here

Update:

@photon78s

• Even though I was able to """kinda""" improve the Innolux N140HCA-EAB enough where I could "at least look at it", the Innolux still sucked, generally super strainy, really weird and obvious color and oversharpening anomalies, and much more intense false 3D effect compared to my good devices.

• Today I just swapped out the 2016 Innolux panel for a 2014 LG LP140WF3-SPD1 (LGD046D). Luckily was available from a smaller eBay seller as "open-box old stock", so I knew I would receive the exact panel and not some "compatible" one.

• Both are 1080p 6-bit, although the LG is brighter and has more sRGB coverage. Was inspired by this post which claimed that they could "stare at it for hours and hours without getting sore eyes or a headache"… so definitely wanted to try

first impressions

• Day one impressions: at the very least, I am never touching Innolux again LOL

• At least when compared to the Innolux, the LG is a breath of fresh air… Brightness level is great. No more "immediate" eye pressure and headache. The screen doesn't feel like it "bulges out in the center" like the Innolux did. Whites are less yellow, and I notice that I can read text from farther away. Matte coating is WAY better, I could tell even before I installed it. However, too early to determine if it's safe.

• This 2014 LG is also definitely better than a newer LG 1440p that came with a T480s I tried, definitely seems to be flatter and no "instant disorientation" like that one caused.

Note that the LP140WF3-SPD1 was apparently manufactured in both glossy and matte versions according to some Reddit posts. Mine is matte

has mild flicker, but my "safe" screen does too

• The LG does have mild ("tiny brightness dip" style, non-strobe) PWM and I can see some pixel inversion, but my "perfect" panel (LP133WD2-SLB1 from 2012) also has this. The PWM looks like the same intensity on camera. I don't see any "erratic" temporal dithering on either LG after launching ditherig.exe -- just pixel inversion. At least on my trusty SLB1, these have never affected my eyestrain or productivity, so I'm not worried about this part.

For reference, the bad Innolux panel has similar brightness dips, but that one sucks whereas my "reference" SLB1 is fine. If I only had the Innolux, I would probably think that flicker was the issue… but I have a safe screen with the same flicker, so I can rule that out. (On the other hand, "strobe-style" PWM definitely messes with me)

no verdict until i fully test

• Will need to put this LG through a full week of testing before I make any claims. I already know that I'm 100% avoiding Innolux, even their higher end panels (this is why).

• Will do some in depth comparison with a bunch of test images on both my safe 2012 SLB1 and this 2014 SPD1. I will post later about any specific differences I notice (aside from the obvious ones like wider color gamut). Seems to be less difference between Windows 10 and the VM now, but can't say for certain yet. Still on 1809

• Definitely regret contributing to the infamous "usable panel turned out to be bad" problem here with some of my earlier posts about the Innolux. I've learned, will be more considerate in the future.

• Currently, the 13-inch 2012 LP133WD2-SLB1 is still the ONLY laptop+desktop display, even considering CCFL monitors, that I can 100% say with certainty is safe -- i.e. easy to read AND does not cause eye strain.

  (It's also a total mystery, as that 2012 screen is so uniquely good despite its mild flicker and WLED backlight.)

• However, first impressions of the LP140WF3-SPD1 seem OK. I wrote this post on here and unlike the Innolux I don't have a headache afterwards.

• The real test though is how it stacks up against my single "truly good" panel. I'll update a week from now. Cautiously optimistic

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs one thing I'm liking about this new LG screen is that it feels like my eyes can relax by "looking past it" -- despite it being matte instead of glossy -- this reduces strain because it doesn't feel like it's a harsh brick wall that "stops my eyes" at it

Pleasantly surprised by this. Originally I thought this feeling was only possible with glossy screens (because it seemed to be connected to looking at the reflection), but this indicates it's possibly more about the pixels themselves

(cc @async)

On the other hand, the prior Innolux was absolutely horrible with this. In addition, multiple devices with AUO panels, even an old panel in a 2013 tablet that's "OK enough where historically I was decently productive on it", fail this test and cause strain when my eyes do this. I associate AUO panels with "consciously having to avoid relaxing my eyes", even if text readability is OK

Therefore, older LG IPS seems to at least have the "most potential". After all my "safe" laptop uses LG IPS. I really believe that somewhere there is another panel like that

Again no verdict at all yet, but generally better first impressions compared to other screens I've tried!

Reinhard62 I don't really care about "pwm free" as long as there's no "strobe-style" PWM, there are AUO panels that show no PWM on camera (compared to my safe 2012 LG panel that has mild PWM visible on camera) but still strain me massively whereas my safe LG is fine.

For me my strain and reading symptoms seem to be connected to oversharpening, contrast/edge enhancement, subpixel/chromostereopsis-based "depth enhancement", white halos around text that are caused by post-processing (this can either come from a panel or a bad GPU/OS) more than just temporal flicker.

Temporal dithering is still very irritating to me and can definitely interfere with reading too, but "classic" pixel inversion seems to be OK. Of course I'd prefer not to have that either, but my safe panel has it -- yet it's still safe. On this new panel I'm trying, I can only spot checkerboard pixel inversion and no "chaotic" dithering, usually I can tell when a screen is dithering pretty quickly but not here, I only see inversion-style flicker.

I do have significant issues and headaches/tiredness induced by most LED lightbulbs and displays that "flash" at a more strobe-like flicker depth, but the mild level of PWM in my safe panel is essentially fine with me.

Also the size of 15-inch laptops really just doesn't work for me ergonomically.

Looks like the T590 uses an LG IPS too and has similar display specs to what I'm trying anyway. I prefer trying an older LG panel instead of a newer once, since I had problems with a 2018 1440p LG panel in a T480s, and a few other newer ThinkPads with LG panels I tried at a used computer store all strained me. On the other hand, older LG IPS panels I've seen in the wild (e.g. T460s FHD touch) generally look much "crisper" to me at first glance.

So far I'm having a pretty nice experience with this LG panel, only time will tell if it's truly good, but it's already succeeding at a ton of stuff that a bunch of other panels I've tried totally fail at. Pretty surprised at how good it is at light tasks so far, but now need to test more intense work.

So it's still one of the better screens I've tried, and it gets a surprising amount of "the basics" right, but starting to notice the flaws -- even though it's alright, my "perfect" 2012 panel is still noticeably better compared to this.

Honestly, I will probably keep it "for now" because it's better to have an OK panel in this laptop instead of the terrible Innolux, and I have actually gotten some work done on here.

What this panel gets right is that I can still read text coherently (unlike a lot of other ones I've tried!)

However, there's definitely times where I get some "mild eyestrain" that I simply don't get on my safe panel. I don't think this is because of PWM or inversion, because my safe panel has those at essentially the same amount.

Fortunately though, no "severe" painful eyestrain like the Innolux! But not a totally pleasant experience either.

Here are the issues I've noticed so far:

• I dislike how bright red and blue look with the 100% sRGB gamut. Interestingly, can make these pure colors feel more relaxing with a desaturation preset in NegativeScreen app. But, as white is created by R+G+B together it's harder to change white, definitely white has more "harshness" compared to my safe screen. (This doesn't mean that narrower gamut screens are safe though, as the Innolux was 45% NTSC but it sucked.)

• Starting to lean towards glossy instead of matte. Even though matte is theoretically better it seems like no manufacturer can get it right. As I move my head from left to right I notice that the part of the screen farthest away from my head gets slightly blurrier. Sometimes this effect is caused by other screen problems, but in this case I'm pretty sure that it's directly connected to the matte coating. (Fortunately though, there's no matte rainbow or grain)

• Weird post-processing thing: Dark wallpaper with some glowing elements + a bright window. When I minimize the window, the glowing wallpaper elements "fade into a brighter version" over a split second. (DPST disabled, PSR disabled, ACE disabled, also tried Basic Display Adapter, still happened. Unsure if this is caused by Windows/GPU or the panel.)

• Some kind of LCD overdrive or ghosting is going on, as I can notice colored motion trails even if I disable the green and blue subpixels and only use red. (This is something that to this day, only my safe 2012 panel "gets right", as I don't see colored trails on that one -- it's probably not using overdrive.)

• Strangely, the green subpixels seem to be physically better than the red and blue ones. If I set the screen to only use green pixels, I can tell it immediately becomes easier to read or slightly sharper in a good way. (There's definitely something odd about the red subpixels compared to my safe panel.)

The positives: text is surprisingly readable, I still don't get any "immediate" crazy eyestrain (unlike Innolux), and UI proportions generally feel more "correct" compared to other panels I've tried.

However, I don't think I can recommend this one because I'm still getting some strain in Windows 10. (It's definitely a big step up from Innolux though!)

I'm also still optimistic about trying other LG panels especially glossy ones.

P.S. I actually bought two of this same panel, one open-box (this one) and another used. I will be trying the used version in a couple days to see if there is some variation (even between this exact model).

I will also try earlier 2015 Windows 10 versions to check if the OS is a factor.