• Edited

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1641970322

LG Display welcomes Samsung's QD-OLED, says miniLED is bad for eye health.

MiniLED is bad for eye health LG Display's vice president also had some harsh words to say about miniLED, which is making its way into many LCD TVs including TCL LCD TVs and Samsung "Neo QLED" LCD TV – even high-end "QNED" LCD models from LG Electronics.

- "The brightness of an LCD panel using LEDs depends on how bright the backlight is," he said. "It is a device that deteriorates human eye health."

He did not elaborate on his position but it is possible that he is referring to flicker (due to PWM control) and excessive levels of blue light that some claim can damage the human eye.

As mentioned in FlatpanelsHD's review of Samsung's QN95A/QN90A with miniLED, "we experienced some eye strain after a long day in front of the TV", which we ascribed to the combination of always-on backlight scanning and PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) control of the miniLED backlight's luminance level.

Over the last couple of years, LG Display and LG Electronics have both promoted OLED as being more comfortable for the eyes compared to LED LCD. Independent testing institutions such as TÃœV Rheinland have confirmed the claims with 'Eye Comfort' and other certifications.

Meanwhile, researchers from Taiwan's National Tsing-Hua University have repeatedly warned governments and consumers about the hazards of LEDs and excessive blue light.

- Source: IT-Chosun

What they are not saying is that OLED is bad for eye health too, OLED flicker and it can get very bright.

5 days later

My guess is that LG OLEDs all use DC-like dimming (to my knowledge) while that can't be said of those other kinds of displays.

  • qb74 replied to this.

    It is wild to me that a high ranking individual in a display company publicly says miniLED is bad, yet someone will still recommend that flicker monster to anyone.
    Absolute delusion and ignorance.

    Gwanatu
    Stop using this atrocious term coined by the r/PWM_Sensitive subreddit which is full of ignorance.
    It's either DC dimmed or PWM dimmed, there's nothing in-between.

    OLED implementations vary wildly depending on whether it is TV, desktop, phone form factor.
    They all exhibit brightness dip every refresh cycle, which can easily be a eyestrain concern for people sensitive to flicker.

      qb74 DC like dimming is a thing. It's not true DC dimming but they claim it's dc like effects. Check this out
      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gizchina.com/2019/04/03/oppo-announces-dc-like-dimming-feature-for-coloros/amp/

      They're using dithering as a brightness control on oppo phones. Unsure how other manufacturers achieve their dc like toggle. Oneplus, Motorola and others have their own form. Unsure on oled monitors but would love to know if they use true DC or not.

      • qb74 replied to this.
        • Edited

        jordan
        That is a marketing term that's coined by the mobile industry.
        In terms of implementation, it is of little significance how they call it.
        Not only that, all OLED phones should perform identical when set to 100% brightness, exhibiting only the brightness dip due to scanout
        DC dimming means no obvious fluctuation in brightness level and voltage-based brightness adjustments.
        I think people here should stop throwing the term dithering around too much, it messes with their perception of what dithering is and it looks like.

        Today's OLED implementations (TV, monitor, phone) aren't DC-dimmed like you're used from LCD monitors, because it employs a display scanout brightness dip every refresh cycle, which can be a source of eyestrain for people sensitive to flicker. A much bigger culprit than dithering imo.

        I'll show you this visualization, maybe you'll see what I mean:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i21pM53pVE - Frame transition slow-motion OLED vs. LCD

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq2Hzt2JKX0 - [Slow motion] OLED 4K 60Hz & LCD 1080P 60 Hz | ASUS UX371

        Majority of reviews don't touch on this subject at all.

          qb74 all OLED devices don't perform the same at 100%. For example every OLED iPhone has PWM at max brightness in addition to the refresh dip. Even some OLED laptops too. In addition to OLED refresh rate brightness dip. Normally that OLED dip is far less problematic than that+pwm. If you take a camera on high high shutter speed you'll see the pwm bars that are black/gray and then you'll see a purple bar which is that refresh rate dip. Btw the brilliant labs "frame" glasses use FRC(dithering) as a form of brightness control with their Sony Micro OLED displays it uses. Different implementations (not talking about refresh dip)

          • qb74 replied to this.
            • Edited

            jordan
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_rfIR7wQZA (I'm perplexed by this test too, but this is decent compared to other ones I've seen)
            Notebookcheck is not reliable and too vague for comparisons.
            I'd love for someone to try out testing smartphones with a OSRTT instead of that obscure Opple device.

            High-speed cameras don't showcase the full picture, so those bars you see on most videos don't tell us much.

              qb74 the 480hz that's been tested of the 15 pro max would definitely be the pwm. The oled dip would be the frequency of the refresh rate. If they tested with the sensor directly against the screen it probably would then pickup the OLED refresh dip

              The only better meter I have is the uprtek mk350n premium but I don't own the pro max. Could test my brother's 15 pro but I think I did already which gave similar results to opple. My uprtek one does show SVM too but forgot what the number was, could recheck for anyone curious.

              • qb74 replied to this.
                • Edited

                jordan
                Yeah, it does seem that the IPhone 15 Pro Max in particular forces PWM at 100% brightness level, which is perplexing to me.
                Sadly, the implementations of brightness adjustments methods are not consistent. It is why I said should, which doesn't translate into the real world.
                Perhaps they've capped the hardware's maximum brightness level, so that it never reaches it. Or hid it behind the auto-adjustment.

                Perhaps the regular 15 or 15 Plus are better in this regard, as it seems that (if notebookcheck is to be trusted), it only employs the brightness dip.

                  qb74 I think they definitely capped it possibly. I think on HDR content some phones actually achieve their maximum capable brightness. Could be a good test with HDR. I know on my xiaomi 13T above 55 or so % brightness it kicks into that "no pwm but refresh rate dip only" mode even before 100%. However xiaomi is implementing it, feels very uncomfortable. I've tested apples version which is found on the apple watch ultra and ultra 2 at all brightness levels and it's very comfortable

                  • qb74 replied to this.
                    • Edited

                    jordan
                    Funnily enough, when you look at the Notebookcheck review of the Xiaomi 13T you've mentioned:

                    The display uses pulse width modulation (PWM) for screen brightness control, indicating that screen flickering is unavoidable. The amplitude curve is consistent at 120 Hz across the entire brightness spectrum. Xiaomi states that the 13T utilizes PWM dimming at a very high frequency of 2880 Hz, offering a more comfortable experience for sensitive users.

                    The graph does not represent the description at all 😃

                    Smartphone display sphere is a completely different and untested beast compared to the TV/Monitor sphere, for sure.

                    EDIT: I've come across DXOMark's review, a bit better

                    https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-14-display-test/

                      qb74 yup they don't really explain things well. I use the 13T in the brightness range that is 2880hz which I found is most comfortable.

                      Phones definitely seem to have more issues than oled tv/monitors

                      dev