I don't really fully understand the problems with modern TVs beyond the obvious like PWM. Recently I managed to find a store that had TVs all playing the same content so they were actually comparable, and they were playing a film in cinema mode and stuff so not the horrible vivid mode we often see in stores. i was able to look at the settings and compare them. I viewed the Bravia 8 next to the X90L next to the Bravia 7. I notice that when it comes to white text e.g. subtitles or rolling credits at the end, the OLED was significantly easier to look at. Even when I turn the brightness right down on TV such as the Bravia 7, the white text seems to "shimmer" a bit and it's hard to focus on, i think it's just far too bright for the dark background. I have no eyes problems and confirmed no astigmatism with optometrist. I struggle with this with my current TV X90L, i have to turn all subtitles transparent in the options which i never had to do in the past, but sometimes there is other pure white stuff on the screen that i can't control and it's hard to look at. So I thought maybe OLED could be a good option BUT I notice that my eyes seem to feel a bit strained and sore after only 1-2 minutes watching the OLED screen. I didn't have this problem when looking at the mini-LED for example. I had to leave shortly so I didn't have a lot of time to compare but i had the impression that the OLED screen was somehow straining my eyes. I don't know how, because it overall looks rather dark, even at max brightness, and I know that the flicker is supposed to be minimal. I also notice that the stutter when some things pan or when credits are scrolling is really distracting to my eyes and really worse on the OLED. i checked the motion settings on all the TVs i was looking at and it was the same on all (all sony tvs, they were at the front of the store + i think it's nice that they apparently do upscaling and processing well). however the OLED was worse for stutter even though they all had image smoothing on low, i wonder if this strains my eyes somehow? i don't even know However on the X90L and Bravia 7 they have some problems like whites are the same brightness as the surface of the sun, even when the TV is on lowest brightness. i currently have X90L and it's ok sometimes like with content which is overall darkish, cinematic TV and stuff, i can watch comfortably. but it hurts to play games on which isn't the case when i play games on my laptop, or on my switch (old switch, not OLED). I don't know exactly what role PWM might be playing too. i avoid PWM in all my other devices. My husband wants a high quality nice TV and I also would like a nice TV that I can use without problems but I just don't even know what's on the market that would be good for me to try.

sorry for such a long rambling post omg

About the shimmering on white … you are more perceptive, like me. You need to avoid this panel type altogether. Try a VA panel. Worked for me. Whoever wants to put blame on you by requiring OLED should really think about your health first. OLED is especially fatiguing and exhausting. Compare at https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/ips-led-vs-va-lcd Check reviews. A quick search suggests SAMSUNG TU-8000 appears to be such display. Narrower viewing angles however.

My issues with flicker have become so severe that I can no longer tolerate a device with ANY amount of flicker. Rtings.com provides a comparison table tool that allows you to filter for genuinely flicker-free on all settings and brightness levels. Of the 455 TVs they've tested, 6 are flicker-free. I now own a Sony X85K and am very happy with it. I can finally watch things on a screen larger than my laptop without feeling like nervous system is being assaulted. Here are the flicker-free TVs: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/table/147235

> @"qwop"#p37952 However on the X90L and Bravia 7 they have some problems https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x90l-x90cl - BGR - VA - TV flickers with PWM - VRR vs https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x77l-x77cl - RGB - IPS - Flicker free - Fixed refresh rate Just because a model number is higher =/= better. The X77L is superior for eye comfort to what you have. The X80K should be fine as well.

Struggling to find a nice TV that's easy to watch

qwop

I wish I knew what it was about OLED TV that makes it hard to look at, I appreciate that white text doesn't shimmer on them but my eyes weren't happy despite this! 🙁 do we know what makes OLED so fatiguing to view for some people?

I looked up what panel has my current TV X90L and it seems to be VA, i can confirm the viewing angles aren't amazing and it looks best if sitting directly in front of it, it's not terrible to the side just a bit more washed out, however it has the intense shimmery whites even at low brightness. maybe there are some settings i don't have correctly?

bluetail

qwop OLED doesn't come with polarizer, or other display filtering things.
It is more immediate or direct. And if it is glossy on-top, then you even get more direct.
That can be fatiguing, as it is also high blue-light emission. I think even much more than else.

qwop

beacon it's rough that these issues seem to get worse over time. i wish there were more flicker-free options for everything, being surrounded by flickery devices is probably harming so many of us over time and making us even more sensitive! thanks i will check them out. did you try other TVs before getting the X85K?

bluetail

Edit I saw you use a Sony X85K. This one uses BGR subpixel layout instead of RGB. A LG QNED90 has RGB - may had been a better choice for compatibility reasons of formats.

@beacon and for PC Displays, I can recommend BenQ XL2546K or above. They are TN Displays with high refresh and are virtually flicker-free if you disable AMA and Dyac. That's what I do.
I did use a colorimeter to get them to 120/cd and Red Green Blue to be even.
It's just great!

But, it won't be color accurate. For that, I plan for a new Display to test:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B082PKRK5H
BenQ SW321C
BUT since it is IPS, and I had issues with IPS before except on Viewsonic VP2770, I am skeptical if it's the absolute best for me.

qwop

bluetail interesting!! that makes sense, i had no idea how OLED was different aside from the pixels turning on and off individually instead of a backlight. seems like the polarizer and other filters might be important for eye health. that is good to know!

moonpie

qwop However on the X90L and Bravia 7 they have some problems

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x90l-x90cl

BGR
VA
TV flickers with PWM
VRR

vs
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x77l-x77cl

RGB
IPS
Flicker free
Fixed refresh rate

Just because a model number is higher =/= better. The X77L is superior for eye comfort to what you have. The X80K should be fine as well.

WhisperingWind

A small note, possibly not entirely on the topic.

I have a Sony KD-49X (it's over 5 years old). After purchasing the TV, I noticed that I couldn't watch it for more than a couple of hours before my eyes started to hurt. I wanted to sell it, but in time I've noticed that if the technology that makes movements smoother is enabled, my eyes get tired much faster. If it's turned off, I can watch TV for a long time without eye strain. Therefore, I made it a rule to turn off all enhancers and see if my eyes feel better. Then I gradually turn them back on.

qwop

Small update on this topic, I returned the X90L in the end. After the comments on this thread I'm moving away from the high end TVs and I think I'm choosing between either Bravia 3 or X85K to replace it with. The Bravia 3 is a new model and easy to get from any store, but there's a clearanced X85K near me that we could get for cheaper than the Bravia 3.

Would either of these be better than the other? They are both flicker free, my partner is more interested in the X85K because it's 120hz for gaming. Bravia 3 is IPS and the X85K is VA. Apparently the VA has better contrast but the IPS has better viewing angles. I've seen people say that both technologies work for their eyes 🤞 I wasn't able to compare the two TV in a store because the X85K is discontinued.

Hopefully either one of them will work well!

qwop

BTW I saw that one of these two TVs has VRR but it can be enabled/disabled so i'm not worried about it, I saw that VRR can cause flickering and I will just disable it. I never had it enabled on my X90L either when I had PC plugged in for gaming

moonpie

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x77l-x77cl
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/bravia-3
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x85k
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x80k-x80ck

I can vouch for the x77l (IPS) models with all motion/bfi/smoothing turned off.

I wouldn't buy the x85k because it is less glossy, has VRR, is a VA panel.

qwop

moonpie Thanks! I was wondering why IPS panel is better than VA? I'm not worried about VRR because it can be turned off, I was a bit worried about the image quality of IPS vs VA in a darker room as I read that for rooms that aren't bright, VA should be better/have a bit better black levels, but I don't know much about eyestrain between the two.

moonpie

qwop Use the ratings and judge for yourself.

For me, extreme dark blacks = higher contrast between white = not as comfortable. The single and only feature that matters when I buy a TV is eye comfort. For me that means RGB IPS 60hz glossy that is completely flicker free. Note: Sony now tries to sneak in VA panels. e.g. Bravia 3 is only IPS for 43, 55, 75:

Size	US Model	Costco Variant	Panel Type
43"	K-43S30	              -	        IPS
50"	K-50S30	             -	         VA
55"	K-55S30	             K55S30CB	IPS
65"	K-65S30	             K65S30CB	VA
75"	K-75S30	             K75S30CB	IPS
85"	K-85S30	             K85S30CB	VA

I have my x77l on the max energy savings/lowest brightness and the display is still too bright no matter the conditions. A person would have to be legally blind to think that the screen wasn't bright.

D1Vad

qwop hey! What did you end up with, any luck? I am still trying to find a newer TV that doesnt hurt my eyes.

Sunspark

Try this.. set up a light source behind the tv. This is called bias lighting.

moonpie

Sunspark Try this.. set up a light source behind the tv. This is called bias lighting.

The problem is OP chased specs and bought a Sony that flickers. Bias lighting won't fix TV's that flicker.

moonpie

D1Vad Sony budget IPS TV's. Stop spec chasing.

D1Vad

moonpie thanks for the tip.

I am a gamer so 120hz would be nice, hence i tried x85k. I didnt have any headaches just text was a bit annoying, prob because its BGR pixels. I should have kept it and no older refurbs left now 🙁

I tried samsung S95D thinking my issues were clossy screens, and QD-OLED is horrible for my eyes. Worked this out from the 34" monitor (dell and samsung) aswell.

I have never had issues with any IPS computer monitors and always preferred them over VAs… So x77l or Bravia 3 are worth a shot. But i am after 65" and you reckon the Bravia 3 is VA in the size. Damn cant win

moonpie

D1Vad https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x85k

That sony should have been fine if you turned off VRR and BFI. VA isn't bad and may work for some. I personally think the IPS "glow" helps with eye strain by preventing deep blacks; my eyes do not like the deep black/super bright white contrast.

I can vouch for the X77L IPS. BFI off, all motion settings off, judder removal off, and all auto color/black settings off. ALLM off.

Bravia 3 IPS - The above + VRR should be turned off. Unknown whether DV causes eyestrain.

D1Vad

moonpie thank you really appreciate the advice.

I never turned off VRR on the x85k, but i assumed VRR would have only been issue with gaming.

I agree with IPS, the less contrast seems to make it easier on my eyes. Shame the image is more washed out, but i want comfort!

moonpie

D1Vad Eyestrain sensitivity can last 1-3 days until your eyes "reset." A one hour gaming session with VRR, game mode/BFI on, motion on, etc on Monday can kill your eyes until Wednesday.

VRR can bring more flicker:
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/learn/research/vrr-flicker