Some success fixing Iphone Temporal dithering (SE 2020 / iOS 17)

NewDwarf maybe you got lucky with the panel supplier on both of your SEs.

for reference the SE 2020 I tried (and hated, wayyy worse than the already non-ideal 14 Pro) came with 17.2.1.

BTW my symptoms trying to use an SE 2020 are legitimately the same as the original post in this thread. Like to the point where I would have used the same words to describe it as they did. Given this, I think it's basically certain that the original poster and I's SE 2020s have the same panel supplier, but maybe yours doesn't

(In addition, @jordan has also had a similarly bad experience with the SE 2020)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Do you reckon that some older OLED (say iPhone X) with double invert would be better than the SE 2020?

I'm thinking of replacing the SE 2020 17.6.1 secondary phone with something else, because it really feels like looking at some blue welding (even with double invert)…. I'm not kidding. Even a short time it "breaks" my vision now where I don't "properly see" things for a couple minutes…

So obviously that has to go. Now the OLED iPhones at least look like a solid color…. and if dithering is removable … on SE 2020 the dithering it's still quite strong especially on Lock Screen, Control Center etc.

So basically, does the double invert on OLED work significantly better than on SE 2020 or LCD, to the point where it's negligible? What would you say

sdkjbfakgljbafkjb Yes, iPhone 14 Pro with Double Invert is like 10-15x more tolerable than the SE 2020, it doesn't cause as many residual effects afterwards aside from blurred vision and sometimes feeling burnt out if I tried to do something "too productive" on it.

(and those effects go away after I stare at a good screen like my working TN panel PC laptop or old VA monitor setups for about 20 minutes.

Note you need an "truly reliable" screen you're confident about, AKA also involving good software/graphics chip/drivers etc., for this kind of "quick recovery" to be possible though)

Doesn't make the whole world distorted like the SE did.

I've found that only IPS (and IPS derivatives like mini-LED) screens aggressively "break my vision" like you described.

I dislike OLED too but have found it's less likely to cause long term effects for me at least if it's if used in moderation.

On the SE 2020 I legit can't read any article without the whole room spinning and I often couldn't process what I'm reading at all.

On 14 Pro + Double Invert, at least for "passive/mindless" tasks like reading articles or browsing social media I can understand the text. Short videos are also OK.

Although, trying to do any sort of more "productive" tasks that require more eye movements (i.e. more complex than just staring at a image/video or smoothly reading text left-to-right), is where the strain and headache starts though — so of course I'm certainly not calling the 14 Pro a "good screen". I still have issues with it of course.

But yeah it's at least getting me by until I find a comfortable phone.

Again, note that mine is on iOS 16.4.1. Also the frame rate is reduced to 60fps in settings. Light mode, no true tone, no night shift.

-

I also have brightness pretty low which makes me assume my issues with all modern screens are mostly not because of PWM flicker, but rather something else, like image processing.

Flicker does affect me though in lightbulbs, but doesn't seem to be as much of a factor for screens.

This is also likely why the SE 2020 was way worse for me despite "having less PWM than the 14 Pro", because the image looked sooooo messed up to me on the SE, overprocessed and overly smooth, everything had a shadow around it, I couldn't focus on anything.

(By image processing, I'm referring to the mysterious blurry/hazy "fake 3D depth-enhancing effect" that's mentioned many times on this forum, yet seems distinct and likely unrelated to "dithering flicker"… BTW the SE 2020 had the worst instance of that depth effect I've ever seen on a phone — so, no wonder I had so many issues with it.

14 Pro still has a similar effect, but it's noticeably less with Double Invert, actually a bit less than the ones seen on modern IPS screens in general)

-

BTW since I already have a comfy laptop setup, I've noticed it's a lot less whiplash to move from that good screen to a quick thing I have to do on the 14 Pro. The strain doesn't start immediately but slowly increases. (Whereas the SE 2020 I was dreading even turning it on to look at the time.)

AshX

Although, note that I can't use the iPhone 14 Pro in the tolerable way I'm describing with Double Invert off — I have to use Double Invert, and that's because I'm pretty sure it's disabling some (but certainly not all) of the post-processing.

And I'm still trying to find an "actually good" phone that I can do more than just passively read on.

(So many times I want to use my iPhone to take detailed notes or frequently manage my calendar, but yeah those hit the point of "more complex tasks" where the strain and headaches start to happen.)

But, all IPS phones I've tried so far (including an older one from 2018) have actually been worse than the 14 Pro. I have issues with IPS in general honestly.

I might just settle with an e-ink phone LOL as those have started to become more widely available this year, and works with my use case (aside from the camera but I'm OK with keeping my iPhone around for that)

Although yeah I agree that I don't think PWM is my core issue, or at least PWM is something I'm able to "get used to" over time

(I am sensitive to PWM in lightbulbs though, but IMO lightbulb sensitivity is a separate set of factors to my screen sensitivities)

I wouldn't really say I get used to post-processing though. I always notice it and it never lessens in intensity even if I use a screen for a long time

Just as an aside to anyone reading

• Double invert removes some temporal dithering
• Lower white point with 100% brightness (supposedly) fixes some PWM

However you aren't able to use both of them together, because "lower white point" does nothing when Double invert is used (at least on LCD iPhones). ( )

Disclaimer: I think in an earlier post I mentioned that "LG was the only OLED supplier for 14 Pro", but checked this info and turns out it wasn't the case.

Both Samsung and LG were suppliers, however LG was the most likely to be used after November 2022 (although there was still a chance of Samsung). My 14 Pro was bought in December 2022.

So, I can't confirm what panel is in mine.

However, there has been a few LG OLED TVs I've seen that are actually OK-in-moderation-but-not-reccomendable for me, in a similar way to the 14 Pro (perhaps a bit better, since the TVs don't have the weird Pentile layout of phones and the resulting additional subpixel algorithms used to "correct" everything for that diamond layout).

As in, better than modern IPS TVs, can still follow what's going on in a show or a playstation game (instead of everything looking like a blurry dizzying mess like on some other modern TVs) — but not something I'd want to watch for hours straight, and I wouldn't buy one for myself.

This makes me think my 14 Pro might also be LG OLED, but I don't know for sure.

The one thing of note, is that my 14 Pro has a colder tint compared to some other modern iPhones I've seen like a 12 (which also had True Tone and Night Shift off). Especially compared to the terrible SE 2020 I tried that was straight up yellow. However, if put up against an old TN panel, white backgrounds still look pretty reddish/pinkish so it still very much has a tint. Just not an extreme yellow tint. Off-angle, my 14 Pro has a strong OLED color shift to a blue-greenish color in addition to dimming a noticeable amount.

(AKA colder for modern standards, but not when compared to old screens. But possibly this is an indicator of who supplied the screen for my 14 Pro?)