Eye strain with Intel 258V + external monitor. Ditherig support?

Brendan970

Greetings. I recently got a new laptop with a Lunar Lake 258V processor with Arc graphics 140V. It has an IPS LCD, so no PWM. It feels exactly like any modern MacBook to me, eye strain after 20 - 30 minutes of use. Tension in sinus / headache. Same with an external monitor, where my old laptop with HD620 in the same setup causes zero strain, pointing to the Arc GPU being the issue. 8 bit color depth does not help.

It seems Ditherig does not yet support Lunar Lake, but does list Meteor Lake as supported in the "dithering settings for integrated graphics" version of the software, though it does not say if they have checked the software with Meteor Lakes Arc gpu. Has anyone had success with Ditherig and Intel's new Arc iGPU's, or any iGPU for that matter? I've never tried Ditherig, wondering if it works for anyone. I hope I don't have to avoid newer intel laptops like I have to avoid all Mac's due to dithering / eye strain.

simplex

Brendan970 Same with an external monitor

Can you get a rest ( 3..4 days ) not using laptop, then try it again with external monitor ? I suppose headache have cumulative effect so instant display switch not works

moonpie

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SunnyCove

Could you provide more info about your configuration? Interested in:

Laptop model
Matrix model
External monitor model
External monitor connection interface (HDMI, Type-C)
Operating system and version
Graphics driver version

@WhisperingWind recently conducted some research with tweaking registers, which also rely on the Intel manual (mostly p. 720, PIPE_MISC register). Looks like that Intel didn't release any manual for the Lunar Lake Graphics (please, correct me if I'm wrong), so we can wait for it, or try to use the same registers as on Tiger Lake with the hope, that necessary registers didn't change.

Brendan970

SunnyCove

Lenovo Slim 7i Aura edition
Not super familiar with this, but here is some data pulled from monitor asset manager:

Windows description...... Generic PnP Monitor

Manufacturer............. Lenovo

Plug and Play ID......... LEN8BAC

Data string.............. NS153B9M-K61

Serial number............ 106

Manufacture date......... 2023, ISO week 50

Filter driver............ None

-------------------------

EDID revision............ 1.4

Input signal type........ Digital (DisplayPort)

Color bit depth.......... 10 bits per primary color

3. LG 27GR95UM

4. USB C / thunderbolt 4 into dock with HDMI 2.1 (cable matters), output into an HDMI switch, then into monitor via HDM1 2.1. Direct connection to HDMI switch / bypass dock has no effect. Old laptop with HD620 had zero strain connected to dock setup.

5. Fresh install 24H2

6. Latest as of posting: 32.0.101.5736

WhisperingWind

The iGPU in the Lunar Lake processor is based on the Xe architecture. In terms of disabling dithering, Xe is no different from Intel UHD starting from the 11th generation of CPUs (according to the ditherig database, even from the 8th). But, Intel might have changed something in the new CPUs.

But in any case, choose “Intel Xe” in ditherig. It might work.

P.S. If you are using Windows 11, try to find the Auto Color Management setting. It should be turned off by default. This setting should enable/disable dithering. If this option is turned off, then dithering is also turned off on both of my Xe-based graphics cards (Intel Arc A770 and Intel UHD 48EU Xe).

PacificHike

WhisperingWind

Hi, Came across this thread, I was looking at getting a Lunar LAke GPU, except its the mobile version, 140V graphics. Not the desktop Arc GPU's.

Do you know if the mobile version of Lunar Lake Arc 140V would also NOT use dithering if Im running a true 8 bit monitor, or can be disabled? Thanks

WhisperingWind

Brendan970

Most likely, your LG monitor is not true 10-bit; it is 8-bit + hi FRC: https://www.panelook.com/LM270WR8-SSE1_LG_Display_27.0_LCM_parameter_64259.html (https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/e3bd36f2). This means that 10-bit color is achieved through temporal dithering. If the graphics card performs dithering at 8-bit + 2-bit dither, then its dithering can overlap with the monitor's dithering, potentially causing more strain on the eyes.

Try Ditherig, does it work for you?

Brendan970

WhisperingWind

It may not be true 10-bit, but it causes zero strain when used with my X1 carbon with HD620, or my desktop with an RTX 3080. It's actually the most comfortable screen I own, I can work on it for 8+ hours without issues. I always set my color depth to 8 bit on any device connected to it.

I tried Ditherig on the 258V Lenovo, and while I can see banding appear in the Lagom test when enabled, the eye strain remains the same. I will test a bit more but with an initial test I feel no difference. That's just with "disable all dithering functions" enabled, I haven't tried any other options.

Also, auto color management settings is not available for me, cant find it. I recall seeing it on a different machine, but it's not available on the Lenovo.

WhisperingWind

Brendan970

Could you enter the BIOS/UEFI? Will there be any tension in this case?

Will it be easier on the eyes if you choose to install the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter driver instead of the current driver for your video card?

Also, auto color management settings is not available for me, cant find it. I recall seeing it on a different machine, but it's not available on the Lenovo.

Could you try this https://www.elevenforum.com/t/enable-or-disable-auto-color-management-for-apps-in-windows-11.11292/

This guide describes how to change the ACM setting in the Windows registry. I wonder if it will work for you.

I tried Ditherig on the 258V Lenovo, and while I can see banding appear in the Lagom test when enabled

This may indicate that dithering is turned off, and the problem could be deeper at the hardware level.

WhisperingWind

From Linux, you can attempt to read the contents of the iGPU pipeline register, where it will be visible if dithering is enabled (I think it is similar to other Xe iGPUs/GPUs). And simultaneously assess the eye strain with dithering turned off. I'm not sure if Ubuntu supports new iGPUs, but you can try it anyway.

Install Ubuntu and switch the desktop environment to Xorg at the login screen. Then enable 8-bit and set Broadcast RGB to Full (there are command examples available for this https://github.com/WhisperingWindLinux/Guides?tab=readme-ov-file#how-to-switch-to-6-bit-mode). You can also enable CPU rendering by adding the following line to /.profile or /.bashrc:

export LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1

Linux forces dithering to be disabled on supported Intel graphics cards, and this environment variable will switch rendering to the CPU (in theory, this might disable some post-processing).

Read the pipeline register value: https://github.com/WhisperingWindLinux/Guides/blob/main/README.md#how-to-check-if-dithering-is-present-or-not

This guide is for Ubuntu.

If more than one monitor is connected (the laptop screen may be counted as the first monitor), you can try reading additional registers: 0x71030, 0x72030, 0x73030.

simplex

Hope @Brendan970 takes a break of laptop and try it again with safe monitor to understand issue reason (display, iGPU, etc)

moonpie

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Brendan970

moonpie

Never used Linux extensively before, besides a little time with Pop OS. When I have some time I'll try it, hoping it allows me to use any machine without strain.

moonpie

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WhisperingWind

PacificHike

I haven't had the chance to work with Lunar Lake yet, so I won't be able to provide any insights.

Watermelon

Intel is the worst. Return it if you can. Or for non playing purposes you can use it in combination with raspberry pi 1. With router and some shenanigans like remote user but through your own network. Never tried it, though people say there will be ping.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Watermelon

Yep, after so many failed attempts trying to get all sorts of PCs with Intel/NVIDIA/AMD graphics to output even a tolerable image to any monitor, I was also finally able to achieve a stable setup for me by using a VNC client on my 2011 Raspberry Pi 1, to control a Windows PC on my local network — it serves as a workaround to output a fully comfortable image to my external display, as it avoids connecting the PC itself to the display.

Note that to make my Pi 1's output truly comfortable, I had to enable the old dispmanx video driver which is in the "legacy compatibility" distribution of raspberry pi OS (instead of the newer "kernel mode setting" driver), then modify config.txt to enable the dispmanx "offline" unaccelerated scaling mode, disable EDID support (and set the resolution using one of the generic DVI timings included with the OS instead), increase the signal boost level to eliminate artifacts, and set the display scaling filter to 8 (nearest neighbor) instead of the default sharpening filter.

With these changes, as long as the external display and its panel themselves are known to be good, the Pi 1 has been extremely successful for me in ensuring a fully comfortable image is sent to the display. The image is dozens of times crisper and easier to read for me than any other monitor and PC combo I've used in the past!

(e.g. my VA LCD with CCFL backlight, the Sharp LC-G5C26U from 2004, is 100% comfortable in its own menus and remains just as comfy with my Pi 1 setup — but the display suddenly becomes uncomfortable whenever I've tried to directly connect it to a Windows/Mac/Linux laptop or desktop PC instead.The Pi setup looks better by a significant amount, even when compared to older Windows PCs with the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter, which still gives me some issues.)

For the VNC server on Windows I use TightVNC Server which has always given me great performance. On the Pi I can control all standard Windows desktop apps, including web browsers, with no perceptible input lag or frame drops to me during general web browsing. Make sure the update polling time is set to 32 ms in TightVNC's settings.

There is minor screen tearing at times, but in general, TightVNC Server on Windows + RealVNC Viewer on the Pi 1 is a surprisingly fast and smooth experience. The frame rate only becomes an issue when attempting to watch videos, but this doesn't matter for me as I mainly use my Pi 1 VNC setup for productivity.