Trump is someone on the record as not liking LED lights because he thinks they mess with the color of his makeup. Never know, he might get rid of the regulations banning incandescents. TBD!

@"Sunspark"#p39603 I actually thought of this too. A reversal of Bidens lightbulb ban. No real proper research was ever done on the safety of LEDs as the only lighting source. I would love the reintroduction of other bulbs - incandescent for homes and ccfl for tvs, laptops and phones.

@"Sunspark"#p39603 Politics aside. I think the last domestic (in US) incandescent light bulb factory closed \~15 years ago, so even if standards were reversed, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to automatically come back. Halogen *might* be different.

At least this kind of factory is easy to re-open, though there would be supply right away from Mexico, China, etc.

> @"Sunspark"#p39608 At least this kind of factory is easy to re-open, though there would be supply right away from Mexico, China, etc. 40W+ Incandescent Lightbulbs are Banned in Mexico https://www.banderasnews.com/1501/nr-40Wlightbulbsnolongerallowedinmexico.htm China Enters Final Phase of Incandescent Bulbs Ban https://investorplace.com/2016/09/incandescent-bulbs-china/ The entire world has moved beyond flickering, inefficient incandescent bulbs in homes. Stop buying cheap, garbage LED bulbs.

It is strange to me that the government mandates that a bulb cannot be used when it doesn't pollute the air and doesn't require toxic materials in its manufacture. "But the electricity!". So? If people are paying for it..

It's strange to me that a person can believe factories and light bulbs are powered via unicorn farts.

> @"moonpie"#p39613 The entire world has moved beyond flickering, inefficient incandescent bulbs in homes. Stop buying cheap, garbage LED bulbs. generally, I love my Waveform lightbulbs, they solved my issues with feeling constantly drained under regular cheap LEDs at home, objects are ***finally*** not "washed out" anymore, they're able to achieve 2700k while keeping "white looking white-ish instead of totally yellow", and for 90% of usecases they're an ideal incandescent replacement (also, pretty sure I prefer them to halogen) but I still have a few incandescents and there's definitely something still unique about them I haven't seen captured in other lighting types yet. there's certain colors that I can only see under incandescent light (mostly blue-greens), even compared to Waveforms's high CRI I'm already pretty relaxed under Waveform, but I can tell I'm even more relaxed under incandescent, despite the flicker. I can definitely tell the difference (I don't think I'm "just biased", because I hadn't been using incandescent at all for 10 years, so I don't really have a "innate" preference for it. Just going off of what I'm seeing + feeling today)

> @"DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs"#p39632 they're able to achieve 2700k...I hadn't been using incandescent at all for 10 years, so I don't really have a "innate" preference for it. You have an "innate" preference to the exact color temp of incandescent. Incandescent = fire = monkey brain's like. There's nothing more to it than that. https://ledstrain.org/d/2224-i-just-finished-testing-over-90-different-light-bulbs/ You can find low amplitude 60hz sine wave led bulbs without spending $15/bulb. You can even find ones that don't flicker. I can tolerate up to a 10% flicker depth without any issues at all. Beyond that, I can notice it. Here is a $19/bulb from waveform that absolutely flickers and exceeds 10% flicker depth: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/waveform-centric-daylight-5000k-a21-waveform.webp Here is the Great Value walmart brand: https://ledflicker.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/a194001-final_updated.png

> @"JTL"#p39606 I think the last domestic (in US) incandescent light bulb factory closed ~15 years ago, so even if standards were reversed, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to automatically come back. Incandescent light bulbs were being manufactured this whole time, even in the traditional A19 size, within the allowable wattage limits. I’m not sure who was making them or where, but given this fact, I would think that bringing back 60W and 100W incandescents would be trivial. I bought a few 60W incandescent bulbs from HealthLighting. These supposed have an even healthier spectrum versus standard incandescents, although the bulbs are very expensive and I didn’t personally detect a significant difference as far as comfort. I’m not sure how these are classified that they were able to get around the prohibition (perhaps some form of “specialty” or “therapeutic” use, although I’m speculating).

The only way the spectrum would be different would be with the gas mix they used to change the white point. Incandescents and halogens are the same bulb, the difference is halogen uses a different gas so it burns hotter, which is why it looks whiter than regular incandescents. Structurally, both are the same bulb. I suppose they could have made a custom filament that might support even hotter temperatures, which would affect the price. That's about it.. the gas mix and the filament's ability to resist heat without snapping.

With the new election results, maybe incandescent will come back. :)

moonpie

jordan when did I say ballasts affect color spectrum?

When you brought up a strawman about ballasts when I asked you about their spectrum because you can't explain how you lived your life and never had any issues until 2020.

jordan

moonpie I already explained it all above. its not hard to understand

beyondthelight

moonpie

hahahaa the strawman

jordan when did I say ballasts affect color spectrum? Do you have something more going on? you're behavior is weird

thats whats happens when you are sucked in by light modulating screens

miripump we use computer monitors for eye testing in the optometric clinic and we noticed weird changes in our results when we changed from old dell CCFLs to newer led backlit monitors. eye movement was decreased

you should also test with incandescent monitors and see what results you get

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

beyondthelight you should also test with incandescent monitors and see what results you get

Although I'm really excited about the benefits of an incandescent monitor, this is something I really want to know before considering one, because I have a feeling despite the undeniably great light + potential for really positive long term effects —

this could still potentially be an issue (for me) "while" working on the screen:

Do any photos/videos on your spectrumview look "3D" or do they look entirely flat like a painting or a print on paper?

For me the false 3D effect is the biggest issue and directly ties to strain + brain fog.

Screen/software combos that don't have it — which are super rare, but possible — like the 2004 Nintendo DS top screen, some old flip phones, and the 2015-revision AUO303E TN panel (with Win10 LTSB 2015 and Intel graphics drivers disabled), are super comfortable for me, even though they're not incandescent!

In fact, the AUO303E is WLED-backlit (and even has a bit of PWM), but as long as the software is fine, somehow manages to avoid the conventional "LED issues" that almost every other screen causes for me!

There are screens I've tried where this "3D effect" is implemented at the panel level (TCON) and no software combo can remove it, for example 3 different LG IPS panels I tried in my T480 before finding the AUO303E. I could tell because even the BIOS was affected.

For reference, even a CCFL TN I own from 2005 has the false 3D effect issue, and it causes strain. But the three examples I listed above do not, and they work great.

This means despite the incandescent backlight, knowing what exact panel is used in the SpectrumView (and if there's any kind of panel lottery) and whether it has any kind of false 3D effect is still really important for me to know.

reaganry

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs have you tried the cheap FL41 or FL60 glasses available on amazon to compare with irlen? i've been pretty impressed, especially when driving at night

jordan

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I thought it was ehh first going there but after putting the lenses on it was a game changer. It didn't fix my screen issues either but overall light sensitivity, mood, depth perception all improved dramatically. Some other people who go to the irlens lady I see said they can use their MacBooks now after using the lenses. She also has the huge lens kit too which is very helpful.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

jordan I thought it was ehh first going there but after putting the lenses on it was a game changer. It didn't fix my screen issues either but overall light sensitivity, mood, depth perception all improved dramatically.

Exactly, same experience for me. Huge immediately obvious improvement in depth perception. But yeah didn't improve any screens for me either (except for OLED phones becoming slightly more tolerable but still bad)

photon78s

jordan

I hope @miripump or somebody can answer this question. I remember finding positive reasons for circular polarization but nothing against display polarization like this. But I also found:

Human-made light sources can alter natural light cycles, causing animals that rely on light cues to make mistakes when moving through their environment. In the journal Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment, a collaboration of ecologists, biologists and biophysicists has now shown that in addition to direct light, cues from polarized light can trigger animal behaviors leading to injury and often death.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090107092714.htm

And this:

Most animals do not have eyes that are sensitive to polarized light or behavioral activities that require polarized light. Wilhelm Karl von Haidinger published a paper in 1844 announcing his discovery that the human eye does perceive linearly polarized light. This visual sensation is manifested as two opposing paddle-shaped yellow regions with blue areas orthogonal to the yellow. This pattern, known as Haidinger's brushes, is best seen when looking at a highly polarized white background.

beyondthelight

photon78s Human-made light sources can alter natural light cycles, causing animals that rely on light cues to make mistakes when moving through their environment.

I believe polarization is basically another strawman to blame for low quality light, first, there is no such thing as Human-made light, there is no such thing as artificial light, light is either incandescent or luminescent, and those two can be either celestial, chemical or electric, except there is no celestial luminescence. Problem with animal disorientation is that low quality light disrupts their mental processes, just like us, but they are more sensitive. I sincerely think it all boils down to luminescent light sources being the culprit, but because there is no alternative in many applications and circumstances, people make up all sorts of strawmans and wild theories. But the solution is simple, yes sometimes the simplest facts are the hardest to understand.

beyondthelight

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Do any photos/videos on your spectrumview look "3D" or do they look entirely flat like a painting or a print on paper?

Entirely flat, best description would be like looking at a quality museum grade reference art book, just plain quality. No 3d effect whatsoever.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs This means despite the incandescent backlight, knowing what exact panel is used in the SpectrumView (and if there's any kind of panel lottery)

Best display is the 31.5" at 30 bit depth and no FRC, the panels used for these are the best in the world, and made in Mexico, but really any panel backlit by incandescent light increases tenfold in quality, 90% of the solution is changing backlight, not really frc or anything else, what the panel does is really just molding the light source, the first thing is the actual photons, the rest follows from that. For example if you start with quality ingredients for a food recipe, then most likely the food will end up good tasting, because all you are doing is rearranging those ingredients, but if you start with cheap or pale tasting ingredients, then it will not matter how you rearrange them, it will never increase in taste because the source was never good in the first place.

ensete

I tried Irlen lenses from an Irlen "specialist". It was a complete and total scam, waste of 3 months and about $3000. Pure snake oil.

As for incandescent bulbs, they aren't coming back. It was the lighting manufacturers who pushed for the ban because profit margins on LED's were so much higher. They don't care about the negative side effects they just care about making money.

jordan

ensete 3000? thats significantly more than what I paid. sorry to hear that it didnt work for you but it definitely is not snake oil as theres lots of data to back it up plus It helps me a lot and also helps others too. btw did you see a diagnostician or a screener? did they have the full lens kit ?

Speaking of bulbs. Obama administration wanted the incandescent bulbs banned, trump brought them back and then biden banned them. I'm sure with trump and rfk jk we will see them back eventually.

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