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  • With the new election results, maybe incandescent will come back. :)

moonpie

it is an issue with the light produced. led diodes are a planar light source (look at the planar radiation pattern) that give off relatively more collimated rays which is unnatural compared to the sun and filament/hid sources that has more divergent rays. it's like listening to music through a cone shaped speaker driver vs. the actual waveform produced by an instrument. diverging vs converging echos etc.

the brain perceive objects illuminated by led's to be distant in space compared to HIDs and filament sources. same as how the brightly lit building a mile away is perceived to be distant despite it being brighter then the room you are in due to ray angle eccentricity. so light from leds don't stimulate accommodation at the eye as much (the more divergent the more stimulation, hence minus concave lenses) which leads to accommodative lead related eye strain. in other words, led light is actually too 'comfortable' for folks that have issues with accommodative insufficiency. the general population tends to have an issue with accommodative lag/excess hence they have no issues. there's a reason why optometry testing machines you rest your head on and look into still use filament sources.

we use computer monitors for eye testing in the optometric clinic and we noticed weird changes in our results when we changed from old dell CCFLs to newer led backlit monitors. eye movement was decreased and accommodative amplitude changed and the results were repeated when we A/Bed it.

flicker and spectrum is a red herring. filament bulb flicker too and your own blinking is low hertz flicker. daylight has tons of short wavelength content.

I think very soon the industry will pick up on this because folks in optometry and neuroscience already know about this. there is an indoor olympic track and field training center in china that downgraded their expensive LED setup to sulphur plasma. something about the brain the 'sensing the ground as being more present' which is pretty wacky but not really wacky since we already have tons of literature about how LRV of flooring affects gait.

personally I switched out my expensive optisolis leds in my home for cheapo CFL spirals and 12000k philip 'snow white' tubes and if anything the ambiance is superior. maybe that's why the corner store doesn't feel as chill since they swapped the overhead tubes for leds

      miripump Wow thanks for writing this. This is very useful information! I knew there was more to LEDs then the basic stuff we may speak about. Do you use a CCFL monitor for personal use? I don't really watch tv but the ccfl tv in my house does feel more comfortable than any led lit one ive tried. One symptom I get on my AMOLED phone is bad blurry vision, wondering if the led light is causing accommodation spasms. it clears up overtime with no screen use. Currently typing this on my Eink monitor with incandescent light.

          miripump

          Do you have a source link to the olympic training center switch out? I wonder what the display industry will do once they realize this? In the audio world, I'm aware they try to solve the unnatural cone shaped speaker driver issue with wave field synthesis.

              photon78s

              I don't have a link, it's not publicly mentioned. I am chinese and hear of it thru an athletics chat group. but many esoteric stuff happens in sporting academies all over the world not just here so I'm not surprised. But since learning of that I kind of noticed that sports grounds still lit by halides tend to be more energetic to play on but I am likely pushing it

              this is partly why I'm very bearish about VR in general and its ability to generate immersion. they will probably figure this out in the VR space first before it trickles down to consumer electronics. I think we might see some kind of "downgrade" of sorts being charged as a premium feature. for example, the recent myopia control lenses actually introduces distortion, whereas expensive lenses were always marketed as being thin and distortion free as if it was some kind of health benefit. I don't really follow too much but the recent convex lenslet MLA OLEDS that collimate light for the purpose of changing nits might really start messing with peoples eyes. It's like traffic lights with fly eye lenses that are a very common visual complaint

              I am not a big audio guy but the first time I heard dome mid ranges the sound was very present and extremely euphoric cause all I was used to were tiny full range cone computer speakers. I've heard about how slap echo and digital beepers and alarms that use tiny cone speakers to simulate high frequency noises tend to bother TBI patients the most due to the odd unnatural spatial effect. thanks for the link

              jordan

              At home I have CCFL laptop and monitors. for me I can tell a big difference between CCFL and LED. at first CCFL made my eyes tired but in a pleasant way like being in bright daylight but never once did it cause strain. which makes sense since something that has more accommodative stimulus will make your eyes work more in a good way. I can use my normal monitors at work ok but I guess I kind of noceboed and spoilt myself already

              I had an issue with my first amoled samsung phone. I noticed I couldn't use it while driving, because my eyes couldn't switch focus from near to far as quickly, which is basically accommodative spasm induced blur. I checked my eyes and nothing changed so it was the phone.

              I think filament is the best source of light because it has the smallest/tightest radiation pattern but the spectrum really is way too warm and can be bad as well. orange yellow light has a subtractive effect to blue light which can lead to premature cognitive decline. it's why I don't recommend blue blockers although everyone wants it by default on their glasses like it's some kind of luxury. maybe you can try some type of blue filter over the monitor or some glasses? B39 optical glass is good but it will be dim. blue filtered incandescent and halogen is a very pleasing and invigorating blue green color…

                    Original ballasts for fluorescents were magnetic and flickered at 60 Hz. Many people could hear them too.

                    The electronic ballasts were so much better. 40 kHz and the buzz was gone.

                    My basement is lit by T-12 fluorescents. I switched the ballasts in 3 of the fixtures to electronic, but I left the rest magnetic because I hardly ever turn them on. I do see the difference when they are on.

                    T-8 tubes on electronic ballast are great.

                    miripump

                    Thanks for your reply. The full range cone computer speakers are most likely radiating sound very differently for different frequencies. See sound radiation at this link: https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors

                    I did try and made a very rough incandescent backlite portable monitor with all the LEDs components remove but still had negative effects despite wanting the display to work so probably not nocebo effect. The light shining through the panel is still polarized I think?

                        miripump Just curious is there any negative effects with polarized light that your aware of?

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                            jordan

                            I also agree that Irlen really works: I totally was suspicious about whether it was "real" at first, but even literally having that doubt in mind before meeting with the specialist, I was still blown away by the results lol

                            There is a very visible and immediate difference in the amount of depth perception I have in the real world, and the sense of "scale/proportion" to things. I can see it changing immediately when taking them on and off. Although there is no traditional prescription (unless you add one), I can see the position of objects slightly move when putting them on, so the colors definitely change my perception of space in some kind of way.

                            Note that I'm referring to custom Irlen tint, this was part of evaulating 50+ different combinations and layers of the lenses in a dark room.

                            I've heard that some Irlen distributors don't go through the whole process to personalize it (which wouldn't create as good of a result). Fortunately, the specialist I worked with was very familiar with the process.

                            In fact, the first time I ever tried Irlen the amount of increase in depth perception was so immediate/surprising that it made me realize "I swear the last time I was able to see the world like this was over 10 years ago"

                            And this was with the initial doubt that "it's probably not going to do anything", LOL.

                            It is certainly real since it very noticeably changed the way I see, even when I initially didn't believe it would. No other types of glasses have done this for me.

                            (BTW, Neurolens actually didn't work at all for me! However, Irlen has been working great for me for more than a year now, I can tell the difference every time I put them on.)

                            My ability to coordinate movement, feel less tired under cheap LED bulbs, deal with large crowds, able to judge distance/proportion/scale is all better while using Irlen glasses, the change happens immediately and was very obvious to me.

                            However, they don't improve my LCD screen sensitivity and are not really useful for that purpose -- I actually take them off while using screens. (except for some OLED phones for an unknown reason, which it actually does make a bit less "noisy" feeling to my eyes and slightly more tolerable)

                                photon78s with all the LEDs components remove but still had negative effects despite wanting the display to work so probably not nocebo effect

                                Thats can say only 1 thing, panel tech matters - polarizers, vcom…

                                  Never said ballast had anything to do with spectrum. It does have to do with flicker which LED is affected by if it's a cheap PWM circuit.

                                  If you have a LED fixture that is DC powered from a high quality transformer, then you won't have flicker issues.. but you might still have gaps in the colour spectrum.

                                  Uncommon, but there were fluorescent tubes with 5 phosphors in them. The "cheap" way to adjust the spectrum a bit was to use one cool white tube and one warm white tube in the fixture.

                                  moonpie when did I say ballasts affect color spectrum? Do you have something more going on? you're behavior is weird

                                      moonpie I already explained it all above. its not hard to understand

                                        moonpie

                                        hahahaa the strawman

                                        jordan when did I say ballasts affect color spectrum? Do you have something more going on? you're behavior is weird

                                        thats whats happens when you are sucked in by light modulating screens

                                        miripump we use computer monitors for eye testing in the optometric clinic and we noticed weird changes in our results when we changed from old dell CCFLs to newer led backlit monitors. eye movement was decreased

                                        you should also test with incandescent monitors and see what results you get

                                                dev